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Actually, Islam means berserk - by Nathan D. Weise
Last post 01-17-2007, 2:50 AM by nathanweise. 6 replies.
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01-14-2007, 10:51 PM |
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01-15-2007, 4:02 AM |
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archimedez
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Joined on 07-05-2006
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Posts 833
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Re: Actually, Islam means berserk - by Nathan D. Weise
Nathan, I enjoyed this article, especially the part about the difference between suhl and salam. But a couple of technical points bothered me. 1. The article takes quite a long time to address the subject matter of the title. 2. The article cites the common apologist claim that Islam comes from the root salam, which means peace. It should be stated explicitly in the article that that claim is false. Rather, the root of Islam is aslama (meaning submit or surrender). The Arabic Islam and salam are related in that they, and several other words with different meanings (including words that mean, for examples, "to pay in advance" and "the stinging of a snake"), share the phonological root s-l-m.
-Arch
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01-15-2007, 5:22 AM |
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nathanweise
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Joined on 01-15-2007
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Re: Actually, Islam means berserk - by Nathan D. Weise
Arch,
Yes, I agree I took too long to get to the title point. I guess I've been wanting to write an article for some time, and I unloaded many thoughts and bits of information in this one.
I believe I wrote that both islam and salaam come from s-l-m, which means calm resignation. I also wrote that salaam does not mean the peace that Western ears often want to hear, as in political/military peace, but the other meaning of peace, which is basically tranquillity.
Regardless, the numerous sources I've checked state islam does not derive from salaam, tranquillity or otherwise, it derives from s-l-m, which means submission, but not to God, who was un-established in Muhammad's tribe. Islam was the Arab warrior's submission of his love of life.
-Nathan
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01-15-2007, 6:59 AM |
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archimedez
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Joined on 07-05-2006
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Posts 833
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Re: Actually, Islam means berserk - by Nathan D. Weise
Thanks Nathan, The distinction may seem to be a subtle one, but there is a difference between (a) words sharing the same root (several words that are very different in meaning contain the s-l-m phoneme sequence), and (b) one word being a root of another (aslama being the root of Islam). Note: s-l-m itself doesn't mean anything. It's just a consonant sequence. I will quote from a rebuttal that I've written on this "Islam means peace" issue: The Online Etymology Dictionary states:
""submission" (to the will of God),
from root of aslama "he resigned, he
surrendered, he submitted," causative conjunction of salima
"he was safe," and related to salam
"peace."" [4]
The words Islam, salam (peace), and several other words are "related" in that they share the same phonological (or grammatical) root, namely s-l-m. Aslama (to resign, surrender, submit), not salam, is identified as the root of Islam. Note that in other sources, istaslama
(to resign, surrender, submit) has also been identified as the root of
Islam. The misconception that the Arabic salam is the root of Islam may
come from the fact that s-l-m words in Syriac and Hebrew can refer to
peace, among other concepts: "Arabic ’islām,
submission, from ’aslama, to surrender, resign oneself,
from Syriac ’ašlem, to make peace, surrender, derived
stem of šlem, to be complete. see slm
in Semitic roots." (American Heritage Dictionary, 4th
ed.) [5] For the Hebrew words having the root s-l-m, the above source states (general meaning of the words) " To be whole, sound; Common Semitic noun salam-,
well-being, welfare, peace…” [6]
Nevertheless, the claim that Islam means
salam (peace) is false. In Arabic, words with different meanings can
share the same grammatical root forms. Such differences do exist among
the various s-l-m (Siin-Lam-Miim) words in the Koran: " س ل م Siin-Lam-Miim =
safety/security/freedom/immunity, to escape, salutation/greeting/peace,
deliver/acknowledge, pay in advance, submit, sincerity,
humility/submission/conformance, resign/quit/relinquish" [7]
As this list indicates, s-l-m
is also the shared root of a variety of words, some with similar
meanings, but others with different meanings, such as those that
translate as 'to escape', 'deliver/acknowledge', or 'to pay in
advance'. (See S-L-M Resources below). Moreover, a derivative of salama can mean the 'stinging of a snake' or the 'tanning of leather'. [8] Thus, the fact that salam (peace) and Islam (surrender/submission) share the s-l-m root does not imply that Islam means peace.
-Arch
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01-15-2007, 7:58 AM |
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nathanweise
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Joined on 01-15-2007
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Re: Actually, Islam means berserk - by Nathan D. Weise
I respect your scholarship on the issue, but what about all the resources that state that s-l-m is a word, and that it means surrender or resignation? For example, these:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=slm+submission+islam
But regardless, we both agree islam does not mean peace, and salaam does not even mean political peace.
I am not an Arabic speaker, but apparently the language is in such an advanced state of decay due to the stultification of its development by the Koran that even scholars are in severe disagreement on basic meanings. Add the habit of dishonesty to "infidels" by Islamists about basic facts, and we have a big mess.
I am interested in finding more information on the pre-islamic meanings of Arabic words, as they were used by Muhammad, rather than by later clerics who have "islamicized" the words. I found enough information on the word islam as a warrior creed subliminating the desire to live, to feel confident that this was the meaning that Muhammad knew and used. Hence, it means the same as the Norse berserk.
-Nathan
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01-15-2007, 9:36 AM |
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archimedez
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Joined on 07-05-2006
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Posts 833
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Re: Actually, Islam means berserk - by Nathan D. Weise
Nathan, Most of the scholarly resources that I've looked at, including a sample of those you've just cited, describe s-l-m correctly as a root. Some might casually refer to it as a word, but it isn't. It's an empty consonant string that is contained in various words in the Semitic languages. Words are formed out of it by, first of all, adding vowels. Aslama means surrender/submission, as does Islam, but there are numerous other words that are formed with s-l-m that do not mean surrender/submission, nor, for that matter, salaam (peace). As for a pre-Islamic definition of "Islam", I am not sure. I did not research that, beyond checking what the authoritative etymological dictionaries stated...and that leads me to suspect that aslama (submission, surrender, or to resign) is the pre-Islamic root. Another issue is what the religion Islam, in essence, stands for, as understood in the Koran, Hadith, and Sira. Certainly, the notion of "a warrior creed subliminating the desire to live" finds plenty of support in those Islamic texts (e.g., "long for death if you are truthfull," "you did indeed wish for death...now you have seen it openly with your own eyes," also see hadith referring to the warrior who "flies" to battle on horseback, "seeking death where it can be expected"; also see verses 9:111, 4:66, etc., and other such phrases...see my rebuttal article on suicidal attacks for more such statements).
-Arch
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01-17-2007, 2:50 AM |
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nathanweise
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Joined on 01-15-2007
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Posts 3
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Re: Actually, Islam means berserk - by Nathan D. Weise
Arch,
Those are excellent examples that reinforce the death cult meaning, even if not literally. I've come across some things, such as the passage quoted in the article that state islam means "sublimate the love of life," but it is difficult to find many things, since of course the vast majority of writings deals with the post-Muhammad meaning, which is simply the religion itself.
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