Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims

Arab-Israeli Conflict ― Historical Development and British Blame Game

The battle for the land we call Israel rarely disappears from the news.  The dispute is often referred to as the Arab-Israeli conflict, but as shown below that label is under-inclusive.  The dispute garners so much media attention for several reasons, most of important of which is the obvious conclusion that it is a conflict that has the potential to ignite a regional war that could further erupt into a larger, more global conflagration.  Such a global confrontation could result in an associated economic depression.
An understanding of the roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict is crucial if we are to have any chance of ending or containing the conflict.  An accurate understanding is also essential to a deeper appreciation of the complex forces causing war, famine, terrorism and refugee problems in diverse places.

Many people believe that the conflict between the Jews and Arabs dates back to the well known story of Isaac, Abraham and Ishmael.   Arabs trace their lineage to Ishmael and Jews trace their lineage to Isaac.  Both Isaac and Ishmael were the sons of Abraham ― Ishmael from his wife Sarah's maid and Isaac from his wife Sarah.  Belief in the story of Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael is widespread, but Arabs believe in a different version of the story than is taught in the Bible.  The Arab version of the story is taught in the Koran.  Both groups find their version of the story to be favorable and, therefore, the widespread belief that Isaac and Ishmael descend from Abraham is not a significant factor that drives animosity between Jews and Arabs.

The Arab-Israeli conflict has its real genesis in seventh century Arabia and the advent of Islam as a world religion.

The Jewish people were conquered by the Romans and ceased to exist as an independent Jewish state several hundred years before the advent of Islam and the Arab conquest of the Middle East in the late seventh century and early eighth century.  The Jewish people were scattered throughout the Middle East and beyond.  As a result, vibrant Jewish communities existed on the Arabian Peninsula during Muhammad's time and they became a prime target of Islamic aggression soon after Muhammad gained political and military power in Medina.

Arab Muslims, led by Muhammad himself, attacked and ruthlessly subdued Jews located on the Arabian Peninsula.  Entire Jewish tribes were destroyed by some combination of slaughter, slavery, or forced expulsion from the Arabian Peninsula.  The nexus between that early conflict and the present Arab-Israeli conflict is indirect, but nonetheless existent and extremely important to an understanding of the modern Arab-Israeli conflict.

Because of their long-term familiarity and sometimes close association with one another, both groups have some common cultural ties.  As noted above, both Jews and Arabs tend to believe that they are descendants of Abraham. They are both monotheistic people.  Many Arabs presently live comfortably as citizens of the State of Israel with few restrictions.  At least on the surface, it is part of what the two sides have in common that has become the focus of the conflict.

Both sides have long-term, historical ties to the disputed Holy Land that neither side is willing to relinquish.  The present outward manifestation of the conflict between the two groups revolves around a claimed right to the Holy Land and control of Jerusalem.  The conflict has a deeper root cause as explained below, but the territorial dispute exacerbates the conflict.  While both groups claim rights to the Holy Land and consider control of Jerusalem as paramount to their claims to the Holy Land, it is a mistake to view the conflict as nothing more than a territorial dispute.  The dispute excites Islamic fervor in millions of Muslims that were not born in, have never visited, and have never owned property in the Holy Land.  Yassir Arafat, for example, was born in Egypt, but nonetheless became the most famous, iconic leader of Arab Palestinians and champion of their claims to the Holy Land and Jerusalem.

While both sides have long-term ties to the Holy Land, some of the Arab sentiments are more manufactured than the result of actual historical reverence.  The Jewish reverence for Jerusalem is based on undisputably ancient historical and religious claims to the city.  The Islamic claim to Jerusalem is far more manufactured by modern Islamic leaders than it is rooted in legitimate religious or historical claims to the city.  In the late seventh or early eighth century Arabs built sacred sites on top of the ruins of the most sacred Jewish site in Jerusalem despite knowledge of the fact that both the city and the sacred site were perceived as profoundly holy and revered by Jews.

The destruction of and expropriation of other religion's holy sites was a common Islamic practice for centuries.  Even in modern times, the Taliban resurrected the ancient Islamic practice by destroying magnificent statues of Buddha in Afghanistan.  Muslims destroyed countless Hindu Shrines in India.  The Hindu Shrines were seen as an especially moral affront to Islam because of the incorporation of art and statues depicting nudity and sexual acts into the temple designs.

Under the original United Nations mandate seeking to peacefully partition the Holy Land, Jerusalem was declared an international city to be administered by the United Nations.  That partition attempt by the United Nations was rejected by several Arab states and they attacked the nascent Jewish state of Israel in an expressly stated attempt to destroy it.  Israel prevailed in what many describe as a David versus Goliath type confrontation, but Israel's existence has been vehemently opposed by most of the Arab and Islamic World with the result that several subsequent wars, violent skirmishes, and repeated acts of terrorism have ensued.

These continued conflicts further deepened the dispute and in 1967 added additional territories to the land dispute aspect of the conflict.  The 1967 Six-Day War also exacerbated the Palestinian refugee problem, as well as the dispute over Jerusalem.  Israel gained full control of the city from Jordan during the 1967 war.

The underlying root cause of the Arab-Israeli conflict, like so many issues related to the conflict, is highly contested. There are many theories as to the root cause and little consensus. The most strident anti-Israel view of the conflict is that it is the direct result of Imperialism. The ultra extremist view that the Jews themselves were Imperialists is not addressed herein as it is patently untenable. There must be an empire before any people can potentially engage in empire building.

Adherents to the more mainstream view that British Imperialism caused the conflict have a more realistic, albeit ultimately inaccurate assessment as to the roots of the conflict. Adherents to the view that British Imperialism caused the conflict argue that after the British took control of Palestine following a mandate from the League of Nations to administer the land, they mismanaged the competing claims to the land and made inconsistent promises to both the Arabs and the Jews. It is claimed that the British used a small force to garrison the Holy Land without working to create a national government to administer the region or to transfer any political power to either the Arabs or the Jews. It is further claimed that without strong central authority and a viable plan to transfer power or control to the local inhabitants and to peacefully resolve their differences, it was inevitable that factions emerged to advance the interests of the competing Jewish and Arab communities. There is a great deal of truth in some of the premises that underlay the argument that the conflict is a result of British Imperialism. Both the Jews and Arabs wanted, at a minimum, autonomy and were displeased with British governance.

Both sides claimed that the British were biased against them and had broken promises to give them control of the land. Arabs complained to the British about Jewish immigration and sought to curtail that immigration as much as possible. Jews legitimately complained to the British about the limits placed on Jewish immigration and that the British were not only not defending them from Arab violence, but were hindering their ability to protect themselves from Arab aggression. British indifference, hostility, or shifting allegiance to the Arabs resulted in the Nazi slaughter of countless Jews trapped in Europe. Many Arabs applauded the slaughter and hoped to expand it to the Holy Land.

Despite a host of errors made by the British in the Holy Land, it is unfair to blame the British for the Arab-Israeli conflict. At best the British are guilty of failing to manage the conflict in the best possible manner. The reality is that the Arab-Jewish conflict was an impossible problem for the British or anyone else to resolve. There had been a continuous Jewish presence in the land for thousands of years, much longer than the Arab presence, but the Arabs were the majority population and they were violently opposed to the increasing Jewish presence. Arabs also could not accept the refusal by the Jews to adopt a traditional role of subservience to Islamic culture in the Middle East. Neither the Jewish desire to develop a home in the Holy Land nor the Arab opposition to Zionism resulted from British malfeasance or nonfeasance. At worst, Britain added fuel to a fire that was destined to burn. The reality is that it is the norm rather than the exception for there to be conflict wherever the Islamic world comes in contact with the non-Islamic world. Consider the situation in Kashmir, Nigeria, and Sudan.

No one disputes that Palestine, the Roman name for the Holy Land after the Romans were angered by a Jewish revolt, is also the Promised Land, but to whom was it promised? "The Jew, who came first? Or the Arab, who was there last?" (see fn. 1) Both Britain and the United Nations proved incapable of achieving a peaceful solution to such a difficult problem.

Both Jews and Arabs were willing to fight for the Holy Land and eventually the situation deteriorated to the point that members of both sides attacked British soldiers or each other. It is, however, undisputed that Arabs initiated the violence by attacking and slaughtering Jews in Hebron, one of the four most holy cities in Judaism. The violence spread to other parts of Palestine. Britain eventually came to understandably realize that it could not resolve the conflict and decided to withdraw from its mandate.


>>>> Part 2: Arab-Israeli Conflict ― Perpetuation by Islam

_____________________________

Footnotes:

1. Quoted from Lightning Out of Israel an old and out of print book written by the Associated Press about the Six-Day War.

2. Quoted from Middle East Conflict by Mitchell G. Bard.

3. See chapter 2, verses 61, 65; chapter 3, verse 71; chapter 4, verse 46; chapter 5, verses 60-65, 78-82; and chapter 7, verse 166.

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Comments Notes: Our system cannot separate paragraphs.


Name: vbv
Date: Thursday August 30, 2007
Time: 01:06:41 -0700

Comment

The story of Abraham is only a kind of myth.Ishmael was a bastard,an illegitimate son of Abraham ,but to claim that Ishmael was some kind of an Adam to the Arabs is far-fetched and stupid!The Adam&Eve syndrome affliction seems common amongst the followers of any of the middle-east originated religions.If the stupid Arabs/muslims/jews/christians reject the stupid Biblical/Koranic myths and the Adam&Eve syndrome,follow what science says about the origins of Humans,all the inane conflicts would stop and the world would certainly be a better place to live!


Name: SMART vba
Date: Thursday August 30, 2007
Time: 06:28:25 -0700

Comment

All those guys are stupid except your scientific world conclusions that dismisses all logical views for your sorry well being.


Name: Marie
Date: Thursday August 30, 2007
Time: 12:14:16 -0700

Comment

This is a website run by ex-muslims to educate the nonmuslim population about what Islam teaches. It is not a place to promote a person's own belief, nor it is a place to insult a person's religious beliefs. Also when you insult somebody's beliefs and say that your beliefs are true, it only shows how intolerant you are. You can criticize Islam, but you cannot insult the religious beliefs of every person that believes in a deity and not in evolution. If you want to promote your beliefs, than do it somewhere else, because this is not the place to do it. Every person that comes to this website to learn about Islam, does not want to be insulted by intolerant people because of their religious beliefs. It is Ok to criticize Islam, because that is what this website is for, but please show some respect towards other nonmuslims.


Name:
Date: Thursday August 30, 2007
Time: 14:32:40 -0700

Comment

Marie - it's an open forum. If you disagree with his remarks then offer a refutation.


Name: MA Khan, Editor
Date: Thursday August 30, 2007
Time: 15:47:20 -0700

Comment

Dear Readers, We do not want to edit or censor any comments made to our articles. However, we hope that language used is decent. There is always ways of expressing views without using too many adjectives, especially the unsavory ones. It never makes one's arguments any stronger.


Name: vbv
Date: Thursday August 30, 2007
Time: 21:17:58 -0700

Comment

To the editor Mr. M.A.Khan- I have not used intemperate language in my comments dated 30 August,2007,but just expressed a sane point of view as to make the world a better place to live.The Christian and Jew take their heart out in abusing the muslim and their religion, but find it difficult to stomach when inanities in their own religion is pointed out. I am not sparing any religion ,whether Eastern or Western, where-ever irationality and superstition prevails. After all all three religions- Judaism, Christianity and Islam - claim common descent, therefore one cannot claim to be better or superior than the other. ABRAHAM IS THE COMMON PATIARCH FOR ALL THE THREE CREEDS AND SO IS MOSES ,THE AUTHOR OF THE FIRST 5 BOOKS OF THE BIBLE. How can you expect the muslim to listen to all the abuses ,when you find it hard to stomach simple home-truths?First learn tolerance before you pontificate before others with your own do religious dogmas. I have not promoted any religion in any of my letters, just asking for a bit of scientific and rational outlook!


Name:
Date: Friday August 31, 2007
Time: 03:51:28 -0700

Comment

"The Christian and Jew take their heart out in abusing the muslim and their religion,but find it difficult to stomach when inanities in their own religion is pointed out. I am not sparing any religion ,whether Eastern or Western, where-ever irationality and superstition prevails." This is pure bs. For one thing, I've tried discussing the Biblical text with you and all you can muster is that they are stupid. Why continue arguing with a Hindu for whom these stories were never taught in any meaningful way. It's simply not part of your culture and you're simply not interested in at least understanding what they mean for other people. If someone were to say similarly ignorant things about Hindu beliefs, I guarantee your secularism would go right out the window because in truth you do spare eastern faiths of equal criticism.


Name: vbv
Date: Friday August 31, 2007
Time: 06:07:44 -0700

Comment

To --- You are mistaken. I am not sparing Eastern Religion with regard to their theories of incarnation, reincarnation ,doctrine of karma, etc., which I do not think as rational. Of course, Hindus, Budhists, or Jains never had religious wars, crusades, jihads, etc. to further their religion and in this great and ancient country always lived in peace. They did not go about debunking other faiths, proselytising, calling others sinners, polytheists (in a contemptuous manner), they did not invade other countries to harvest more followers, they did not persecute people because of their beliefs. Mind you ,even atheists ( who are called 'nasthiks) are respected for their perspectives. The 'Charavakas', the first atheists, were a contemporary of the Rig-Vedic times (which far precedes your Biblical patriarch, Abraham) and they were not hounded, persecuted and butchered as would have been the case of any Abrahamic religion. Even today 'secularism' has been the Indian ethos only because of the marority of Indians belonging to the non-Abrahamic religions.You don't find people persecuted because of the religion.In free India we had at least three muslim presidents as head of state since our independence - Dr. Zakir Hussain, Fakhrudin Ali Ahmed, DR. Abdul Kalam ; not to speak of sevral judges of the supreme court ,high courts, chiefs of armed forces, well-known business tycoons, top civil servants, executives, also from the Christian minority groups, which speaks volumes for our secular position and we don't need your sermons about religious morality, when all through your history religion was the primary cause for wars and human misery. We don't pontificate and accuse a weak country of having "WMD" just to get their oil, while you dither when it comes to Iran or North Korea. Why ? Because they are not as easy targets as Afghanistan or Iraq which have neither a well-oilled army, airforce and navy almost negligible! What about democracy in China, which has some of the worst human rights record and a communist as well which is supposed to be antithetical to "free western society"? You , of course ,will not have any coherent answers for all the issues I have raised, as such is your moral standing!


Name: vbv
Date: Friday August 31, 2007
Time: 06:29:09 -0700

Comment

To -- You may ask what has Hindu religion given to the World? It has given Yoga, Ayurvedic medicenes, and also the numbers falsely ascribed to the Arabs, apart from astronomy, philosophy, and material sciences.Even in the West all such contributions to science, medicenes and human welfare can only be traced to the Pagan Greeks, Romans or Ancient Egyptians. What about the Abrahamic religions? They were fanatics with their God/Gad/Yahweh/Allah fixation and of course a leap into the tunnel of fear ,superstition and ignorance - a great recipe for the Dark Ages! They have made intolerance a virtue and peace a sign of weakness. Their contribution is just bigotry and war, persecution and massacre ,all in the name of their Almighty God/Allah. Nothing more!


Name: vbv
Date: Friday August 31, 2007
Time: 07:21:07 -0700

Comment

To--- When did Europe come out of the dark Ages? Only when they re-read the thinkers and writers of their 'pagan' ancestors - Greeks Romans, Egyptians, Babylonians, etc. What about the intolerance to new scientific findings? Edward Bruno was burnt at stake for not refuting a heliocentric cosmos, Galileo was kept in house arrest all his life, while the Christian church could shamelessly adopt the Aristotilean view of the Cosmos and also accept the Egyptian pagan Ptolemy's cosmos. Why ? The Bible was very weak and backward in these matters. As for moral stories we in India have many since several millenia such as "Panchatantra", "Jataka Tales", "Kathasaritha Sagara", to name afew. Do you know these stories inspired Aesop, Hans Christian Anderson and the Grimm brothers. Not to mention the animal stories in "Panchatantra" preceded Walt Disney cartoon characters by three millenia! We are also fun-loving free people and do not like to be stifled ,oppressed and suppressed by the culture of the Abrahamic religions. Today you are free because your religion does not interfere much in your creative activities. Otherwise ,life would be dull, drab and miserable!


Name: Kai
Date: Friday August 31, 2007
Time: 10:04:46 -0700

Comment

I sick of these Muslim claim every piece of land in this planet is them to own because of their non-sense believe in some devil allah.


Name:
Date: Friday August 31, 2007
Time: 11:06:43 -0700

Comment

Freedom in India? i guess it depends on what caste you're born into. "Today you are free because your religion does not interfere much in your creative activities. Otherwise ,life would be dull, drab and miserable!" like a bollywood movie.


Name: vbv
Date: Friday August 31, 2007
Time: 21:08:03 -0700

Comment

To --- "Free In India" Well, Bollywood is a nonsense nobody in India takes it seriously ,as it sheer trash milled out to the masses as an escapists route to some surrealist world .Can you judge USA by Hollywood alone ,or the Scandinavian countries by their porn-shops alone! India is free ,we are proud of our heritage, not slave to a semitic creed born in arid desert crying in a frenzy "Gad? God? Yahweh? Jahweh? Allah? mullah?", dithering in half-crazed stupor ,stifling your commonsense, let alone your creative intelligence which will be anyway killed by the dull, lunatic wailing of "sinners",with nothing to do but oppress, plunder, rape, trample on human dignity and the like! All contribution to Human creativity, science ,art, literature ,etc. have come mainly due to the so-called "pagan" beliefs and their origins, be it Greek, Roman, the Britons who built  Stonehenges, the Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians, Indians, the Incas in Peru,the Mayans etc. The semetic religions have led us only to ignorance, superstition, and to "Dark Ages". It kills the spirit of free enquiry and asks rigid conformity to its moth-eaten dogmas. If you are an European you should be rather proud of your heritage be it Gaulish, Celtic, Roman, Greek, the Norse, the Vikings, the Britons, Slavs, etc., rather than be a slave to the muck of intolerant, regressive, oppressive and highly bigoted semetic creeds! As for castism in India, I agree that it is a evil practice as bad as racism in the West, but the government has taken strong measures to overcome this. Further the chief Minister of the largest province ,Uttar Pradesh ,Ms. Mayavati belongs to the sdo-called backward class. So also the chief minister of another province, Tamil Nadu ,so also the members of parliament and provincial legislatures. And all of them have been democratically elected. However, I agree we still have a long way to go before this evil practice is completely eradicated and equality is achieved without recourse to law.Inspite of all this, people in India were never compelled to believe in any faith/God, one could be an atheist and yet be accepted inthe Society. There is no witch-hunt, notorious inquisitions, torture and death for apostasy and the like in the history of this country, until the maraudering muslims over-ran this country with their fanatical and intolerant creed.


Name:
Date: Saturday September 01, 2007
Time: 05:23:01 -0700

Comment

"There is no witch-hunt, notorious inquisitions, torture and death for apostasy and the like in the history of this country,until the maraudering muslims over-ran this country with their fanatical and intolerant creed."

What about the Hindu-only city zones that were recently passed by your democratic government? And legislation to have people register with the government if they convert from Hinduism to Islam or Christianity? If any Western nation did this to Hindus, they would rightly cry racism and bigotry. "The semetic religions have led us only to ignorance,superstition, and to "Dark Ages"." - I guess you missed the hysteria of the milk-drinking Shiva statues that swept the Hindu world not too long ago. Please don't try and tell me Hindus aren't superstitious. As for ignorance and that Dark Ages, that had alot to do with the high illiteracy in Europe at th time. You can appreciate that because if your country has only improved to a 65% literacy rate. "


Name: vbv
Date: Saturday September 01, 2007
Time: 05:43:07 -0700

Comment

To---- When were christians really kind hearted? They are myopically selfish so far as their interests are concerned. They couldn't care a fig when India were telling the world about the horrors of islamic terrorism. Then came 9/11. Squeeaal they did as loudly as a pig/swine could when its arse is put on a frying pan! All of a sudden we find a flurry of actions against islamic terrorism ,quite a bit of it misguided.Whereas Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are the root cause of all islamic terrorism,it is Iraq which bears the brunt of all the American 'precision'/'smart' weapons.For what ? Oil,ofcourse! Saddam Hussain in his two decades of despotic rule may have caused 150,000 deaths; but what about the crusading christian fanatic George Bush,the president of the USA,his rotten policies has caused over 600,000 deaths in Iraq from the date of his invasion till now in mid 2007 ,as stated by OXFAM report ( mind you ,not third world report).We can find solemn ,long-drawn and sobby faces in Western (US) TV reports when bodybags of US soldiers come home,but gleefully don't care attitude when thousands of civilians die in the unjust invasion and war ,because they are just 'collateral damages',nothing more!So much for christianity and George Bush swears by Jesus in all his unholy 'crusades'.Where is the kindness, the humane touch, forgiveness, mercy,and all the preachings of Christianity? I can tell you one thing, the Christian preacher would say if someone strikes you on one cheek you show him the other to evoke sympathy and appeal to the striker . What will George Bush and his ilk do if you really follow that preaching? The White man will slap you harder. These teachings are to render the conquered masses weak before their oppressors,so that you can keep on appealing to the whiteman's sympathy in the hope that one day he will stop slapping you!That is why Christian missioneries flock in the conquered nations not only to CLAIM MORE FOLLOWERS,BUT ALSO TO SOFTEN THEM THAT THEY DARE NOT DEFEND THEIR HONOUR OR THEIR COUNTRY.


Name:
Date: Saturday September 01, 2007
Time: 07:40:55 -0700

Comment

vbv - you have a problem respnding directly to my responses by i'll respond to what you wrote anyway. "When were christians really kind hearted? They are myopically selfish so far as their interests are concerned. They couldn't care a fig when India were telling the world about the horrors of islamic terrorism." I guarantee you Americans give more to charity than any other nation on this earth. Not to mention in our country, Asian families earn more, on average than any other family. Not that they haven't earned it but if we were so cold and bigoted the opportunity wouldn't be there. Take India for example, where people who practice religions not originating in India are being zoned out of certain cities so that they now have to either pretend to be Hindu or suffer for it. Speaking of kindness, how nice of the Hindu nationalists to set fire to a train with their own brethren aboard to frame the Muslims. How many murdered in Gujarat by the morally pristine Hindus as a result? And what do you want America to do because India suffers from Islamic terrorism? All of the Western world has to monitor the behavior of Pakistiani individuals for fear of terrorism. And what's a Pakistani? An Indian whose ancestors, out of cowardice or to escape the oppressive caste system, bent over for the Arabs and Turks. Do you expect us to be better allies? Indian politicians say, Our war against terrorism is a war against terrorism. Their war against terrorism is really a war against Islam." Gee, it's a wonder we aren't more sympathetic to a group of people who would so happily throw us under a bus.


Name:
Date: Saturday September 01, 2007
Time: 07:44:29 -0700

Comment

" Asian families earn more, on average than any other family." Just to be clear, this was from an article in AsiaTimes.


Name: vbv
Date: Saturday September 01, 2007
Time: 09:39:46 -0700

Comment

to---- Hinduism is not a monolithic religion like the semetic cults. There is not only milk drinking Shiva , but also elephant-head god Ganesha,Vishnu relaxing on the coils of a massive serpent called 'Sesha',godesses on lions, tigers,etc. all co-existing with also the great philosophies of Vedanta, Sankhya,Advaita,yoga,etc. What does this imply? It shows how toletrant we are to a myriad of beliefs and philosophies ,unlike the semetic creeds which say sternly 'believe this or else face death!' Amidst all this atheism also flourishes.There are also tribal creeds and no 'Hindu' had gone prosylitising,saying their customs are wrong. There is no rigidity and conformity, but there is more of amity in India. If we were intolerant and bigoted,your St. Thomas who came to India in the first century AD would have not got the respect from a hindu king in Kerala and he was allowed even to preach his faith,what about the Parsis who came to India being persecuted by the Arabs ,forcing them to convert to islam,they settled in India and remained Zoroastrians and no Hindu king asked them to convert to hinduism? Well, there are inumerable instances of such facts ,which will not be savoury to you. You are harping on the Gujurat riots. But do you know that this was a consequence of the muslims torching to horrendous death 65 passengers in a locked up railway compartment? Ofcourse , I am not justifying the attrocities on both the sides. You do not know the pain of partition suffered by Indians ,especially in the border states such as Gujurat, Punjab, Rajasthan,when millions of the hindus were slaughtered (estimated at over 10 million,which is more than the number of jews salughtered by Hitler and his cohorts), and the incessant support to Pakistan (until recently) as against India,fomented by mullahs and muslim politicians. Of course the muslim politicians know very well now that even after 60 years of independence the Indian muslims who went to Pakistan as their promised land are still referred to as 'muhajirs',that is refugees. Pakistan mainly comprises the ethnic Punjabis, Sindhis, Baluchis and the Pakhtoons ,others have no identity other than their religion. As a matter of fact I have already written in my comments of 31st. August that India had three Presidents, several supreme court and high court judges, top bureaucrats, business tycoons , members of parliament,state legislatures ,etc. from the muslim and christian communities which has fallen on deaf ears, whlie you harp on some rare events to show us in bad light! You better read all my comments properly and you will see that I have not skirted any issue that you have raised. Another matter ,you mentioned "Asian famlies earn more ,on an average than other families". They earn because they are well educated and qualified professionals ,sincere and hardworking and they deserve to earn more,not because anybody is doling out more money just because they are Asians. Does that indeed trouble you so much? When the whiteman loots the wealth of 'under-developed nations' by underpaying them for exploiting their resources there is not a murmer to be heard ,whether it be in Asia or Africa! Please keep your double standards to yourself!


Name:
Date: Saturday September 01, 2007
Time: 11:27:54 -0700

Comment

My point about the earnings of Asian families is that here the opportunities are available for that sucess. if we were a racist society as you lable us, those opportunities wouldn't be availble. In India, 250 million so-called "untouchables" are denied such equal opportunities. You can talk about changes in Indian society to improe their lot but from what I've read those changes are miniscule. ``India is ready to discuss racism so long as it is in other countries, but not caste in its own backyard.'' Indian officials describe caste as an internal problem that can only be cured by implementing - and strengthening - anti-discrimination laws. Ranjana Kumari, a women's rights activist, supported the Dalits' complaints but questioned the wisdom of looking to an international conference for help. ``It should not become a stick for the international community to beat India with,'' she said. Human rights activist Swami Agnivesh says much of the discrimination in the caste system results from the actions of Brahmins, the priestly caste. Your casteism is no different from racism. By the way, besides Britain (not my country) when has the white man exploited India? If you don't like the pay American companies offer you, refuse them. It wouldn't offend the rest of us. As for the Arabs and "their" oil. They did not discover the oil under their feet; they did not develop the refineries nor any of the industrial products which require oil for fuel. The investory did pay the local sheiks for the land but when they saw how much money the investors made the Arabs took it back. All we did was pay them billions upon billions per year to have been so lucky to have been born in the right place. boo hoo. As for the Gujarat riots. It's been proven that the trains were burned by Hindus and not by Muslims -that's what I wrote and one of the issues you chose to skirt - in order to set off the rioting. And I think you know what I was talking about when I refered to the milk-drinking statues. I didn't need a lecture on Hindu cosmology. Hindus in India and even in London were believed their statues could be fed milk and we're doing so on camera. Of course the milk was spilling down the statue but ...you were saying about Hindu superiority?


Name: vbv
Date: Saturday September 01, 2007
Time: 21:45:43 -0700

Comment

To--- Most of the Indian ,including myself, did not subcribe to statues drinking milk.I had a good laugh at it myself,so did most of the people I know.It is like the west ,a few years back,used to think India as a land of opulent maharajas,snake-charmers,magicians who did the rope-trick and surrounde by just filth and poverty. This is not absolutely true! Yes ,poverty in India is endemic,but the causes are many such as over-population,scarce resources,poor short-sighted govt. policies,peoples apathy towards fellow human-beings,extreme selfishness and self-serving attitude of the rich and well-to-do,etc. Neither soialistic policies nor the current liberalisation policies have alleviated the problems faced by the poor and the farmers. In the liberalised economy the big businesses,especially the IT sector have done very well; but the fruits of such development has not percolated to the common Indian,specially the farmers ,many of whom had to commit suicide to escpe their indebtedness to the local money-lenders. The govt.is liberal in lowering the interest rates and providing ample moneys to the industrial establishments,even those whose capacity to pay back the loan is dubious,while the farmer gets a raw deal.Why? The govt. likes to get kudos from the industrial establishments on the one hand and looks to the world bank and the west for their approval slavishly! Now you said castism came out of hindu religion.Now again I stress that hinduism is more a way of life than a creed created by individual prophets like Judaism,Christianity,Islam,Budhism,Jainism,etc. Nowhere in our Vedic scriptures it is stated that human beings should be classified into strict caste system.It is in the later mythologies this castism was formalised. Even in the epic "Mahabharata", in a chapter where 'Yaksha'(an equivalent of angels in your religion,a kind of demi-god in hinduism) asks questions to Yudhishtra ,in order that Yudhishtra may liberate his brothers from a curse inflicted on them by the said Yaksha, Yudhishtra,in reply to a question "who is a brahmin?" gives the reply as follows (which is accepted by the Yaksha) :- 'It is not by birth ,or education alone that a person is a brahmin,but by being a person of exemplary conduct only a person can be a brahmin' . A person of exemplary conduct can only be a person of good character,good culture and up-bringing,one who empathises with fellow human-beings,one who will not do any violence to another in thought or action. Ofcourse today in India most of the so-called brahmins would not fit the bill at all. The closest one can relate may be Mahatma Gandhi, Dr. Ambedkar, Swamy Vivekananda, Nelson Mandela, or Martin Luther King, etc. Why we can also include Sir David Attenborrough, Jane Goodman, r Albert Einstein, Leo Tolstoy,Henry Thoreau,Richard Dawkins,etc. who can be called persons of not only great achievements but also of exemplary conduct! they were all either pacifists or atheists! Nothing to do with religion at all,even if they interpreted their beliefs in their peculiar ways. As for the persons you mentioned they have their own political agendas and to beg money from their benefactors in the west which is why they go to the west. You are wrongly informed that hindus torched the train,it is like saying that the jews brought down the twin-towers in New York! As for the " the billions of dollars" spent , it is not charity that you are doing, you would have made trillions and enriched yourself. It is like Shylock saying that I gave you a thousand ducats ,so jollywellgive me a pound of your flesh! Are you also not getting enough money selling your smart weapons to them and you military-industrial establishment flourishes as a consequence, and are those stupid Arabs not putting most of the money they get from you in your own western countries, heh! just who are you trying to fool, heh?!


Name:
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 00:16:45 -0700

Comment

No Hindu literature to support the caste system? To whom do the Laws of Manu and the Bhagavad Gita belong. While it may be true that the caste system is not stressed in the religious literature, it is mentioned and the fact remains Indians are raped and murdered for being born into a lower caste, even today. Similarly, nowhere in the Bible does it mention having Inquisitions or torturing the "heathens" even though that happened due to the "true believers". My point about the Arabs, who whine about colonialism and exploitation, is we Americans did nothing to them but make them the richest people on the planet without them having to lift a finger. And on top of the petrol dollars we still send the Saudis foreign aid on top of it! Any money made on weapons sales is our own money being sent back. "and are those stupid Arabs not putting most of the money they get from you in your own western countries". For what? Building mosques and buying Islamic learning centers at the colleges to disseminate their bullshit? How do you figure they spend their money here? No mostly their money goes to building up their kingdoms and allowing their citizens to do little to no work and pay no taxes to better their own societies. It's better to make that someone else's problem.


Name: vbv
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 01:45:38 -0700

Comment

To--- Manu's Laws is not the ultimate authority on hinduism ,nay ,not even a scroanct that everybody should bow before it like the Koran or Bible.Manu's laws is not the "word of God" to hindus like Koran or the Bible. Manu's Laws were written by some persons to preserve cast sytem among other retrograde thinking. For a fact the author is'nt even the Manu Vivsavan of the Rigvedic era. It authorship dates only to 1st century AD which is far removed from the vedic times.Vedic religion is thousands of years old while not so the puranic lieratures. As a matter of fact the "Skanda Purana",one of the eighteen puranas, can be dated as late as 10th century AD,and some of its portions written as late as the 17th century. The only ; while the earliest purana can be dated not earlier than 7th century BCE. The Vedas and the Upanishads have the ultimate authority in 'santhana dharma',or what you call 'hinduism'. As for Bhagavath Githa you are talking nonsense,since the hero of the Githa is Krishna,who was not a brahmin,but a yadava,a backward class in India today,for eg.,Laloo Prasad Yadav,our Railway minister,Mulayam Singh Yadavthe erstwhile chief minister of the largest and mst populous Indian province belong to the Yadava community. There one more fact the author of the Ramayana, Valmiki belongs to the Scheduled Tribe who are also in the lowest ladder in terms of social and economic development alongwith the schedule casts. Infact ,today,they are more disadvantaged than Dalits.Atleast Dalits had DR. Ambedkar as their modern icon,while they haven't any such influential personality amongst their clan other than their ancient poet 'Valmiki'.There is no support for castism in Ramayana and Mahabharata.Eventhe story of Dronacharya and Eklavya in the Mahabharata is only to show the parochial mentality of Dronacharya, and the epic doesn't extol him,also he gangs up with Duryodana,the evil or dark side. The Mahabharata is not a simple story of good and evil ,it involves a lot of philosophy of life in its 100,000 verses,its characters are not simple black and white ,there are shades of grey on either side of good or evil just as no human being is absolutely pure good or black-evil. The human psyche is far more complex that it is not possible to delve into it in this format.So far as characters,human psychology and complexities are concerned it would take all the 37 plays of Shakespeare the great novels of Tolstoy to come anywhere near the "Mahabhata". I am not concerned about money and politics of Arab-American/Arab-European politics ,as the sheer hypocrisy of the West to foist Tyrants and Banana republics and bring about disasters and untold misery to the rest of the world. We are also the victims of the American policies.Look at the price of oil,are also not made to cough up money ,albiet in a devious or indirect mannerfor the on-going so-called war on terrorism and unjust invasion of Iraq where more people have lost their life in the 4 years of American invasion than in the entire rule by Saddam Hussain. I agree that islam is evil, but muslims are also human beings! So also ,I repeat , that I am not against Jesus but certainly against their followers who are out to debunk and disparage every other creed other than their own. Take for example the recent case of Koreans kidnapped by the Taliban and released yesterday. These Koreans were in Afghanistan to claim more followers for Christianity by the lure of their "charity" or "good work" . Why should conversion to Christianity be a pre-condition to carry on humanitarian aid work ? This is immoral and selling of religion as a commodity / commercial items!If it still doesn't register in your head,I don't know what can?


Name: Larry houle
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 03:02:00 -0700

Comment

THE EU AND THE PALESTINIANS It is absolutely essential that a solution be found to the Israeli – Palestine conflict. This conflict is a cancer that eats away at the Middle East. The EU has an historical opportunity to bring it to an end. The EU can bring a European future to Israel and Palestine. The EU offers both Israeli and Palestinians - a Super Special Relationship – all the benefits of membership except a veto power. Businessmen from both countries will enjoy full access to the EU market - the people of both countries - full access to political institutions, technology, educational institutions, funding, employment etc. In return, the Palestinians must: 1. Recognize Israel. 2. Cease all attacks. 3. Complete all the EU 35 chapters required for this super special relationship. Israel must: 1. Withdraw all forces from the West Bank. 2. Dismantle all settlements except the 2 large ones adjacent to the wall. 3. Stop all building in Jerusalem Palestinian areas. 4. Allow East Jerusalem to be Palestinian Capital keeping Jerusalem united. 5. Complete all 35 chapters. 6. Eventually Palestinians allowed to live in Israel. (quid pro quo basis). Jews allowed to live in West Bank. In order to ensure that terrorists do not smuggle 15,000 rockets into West Bank Cities, the EU/Natio and UN send an army of 10,000 to both the West Bank and Gaza Strip to secure the borders. Although the diehards will never give up their aim of destroying Israel – the Palestinian people by joining with Europe are guaranteeing the future of their children. Businessmen can produce goods and services for a market, not of 4 million but of 500 million. With no violence, the Gaza Strip could become a mini Beirut with multi - billion European investments in tourism and hotels. Its future guaranteed. The Palestinians would have to be mad not to jump at this EU OPPORTUNITY. If they do not then screw them. No more money. No more aid. IT’S TIME FOR TOUGH LOVE PALESTINIAN STYLE. A peace settlement engineered by the EU dramatically alters the war on terror - the relationship between the West and Islam and democracy throughout the Arab world. The EU takes its historical place in World History. By Larry Houle www.godofreason.com intermedusa@yahoo.com


Name:
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 07:05:14 -0700

Comment

vbv - that casteism is rooted in Hindu religious literature can be found by doing a simple search: the origins of the caste system in India. The fact that people have been arrested for committing crimes against the lower castes and end up claiming that the lower castes deserve it because of bad karma is proof enough that there is a religious connection to these crimes. You don't think the connection is fair since these books: a) don't call for such strict social stratification nor b) criminal behavior towards these lower castes. Well, I don't think it's fair for you to label the Bible immoral and evil because of bad things people have done in the name of it.


Name: Re: Larry houle
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 09:11:49 -0700

Comment

"1. Recognize Israel. 2. Cease all attacks" - That's been tried and failed. "4. Allow East Jerusalem to be Palestinian Capital keeping Jerusalem united." - Why? Was it there capitol before? No. It was part of Jordan. A part of Jordan lost in a war the Jordanians started. Does that fact of history have a meaning or do the Arabs get to sart wars and cry injustice when they lose forever? What about places like the Yemenite village in East Jerusalem that was bought by the Yemeni Jews and now occupied by Arabs through a battle the Jordanian army won in the 48 war. By Arab terms, they stole that land. Not tomention under Israeli control, Jerusalem is free for all peoples. Under Arabs rule, there would be religious restrictions on non-Muslims, to say the least. Hisorically, Arasbs used the Western Wall as well as Jewish tombstones for urinals. The Israelis should accept that for a promise the Arabs won't keep? Dream on. "order to ensure that terrorists do not smuggle 15,000 rockets into West Bank Cities, the EU/Natio and UN send an army of 10,000 to both the West Bank and Gaza Strip to secure the borders." This won't be acceptable to either side, I guarntee it.


Name: vbv
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 09:51:14 -0700

Comment

To--- Again you are misinterpretng,ignoring all the quotes/references I have given.You are harping on Karma as if it is such a bad doctrine. It is by far more sensible,rational and a good but humane deterrent to pre-empt human beings from committing crimes/sins/transgressing any moral condition than the semetic religions' irrational threat to throw non-believers into eternal hell! Giving Infinite and terrible punishments for even expressing dissent against the so-called god/yahweh/allah 's words because all three of are vengeful petty-minded gods demanding unwavering loyalty from their followers and shall not brook any competitors! Further,they may forget and forgive even murders/rapes/incest ,etc. but never non-belief! Well, atleast in the doctrine of karma is based on Newtonian law that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.There is no infinite punishment for finite violations. In Hinduism good moral conduct is given precedence over just fanatical belief in a diety ,that is why it is not named after a founder ; it is called "Sanathana Dharma" or the eternal path of righteousness.Righteousness is emphasized than go gawking Gad!Yahweh!or Allah-hu -akbar! all the time ! Hinduism is one of the oldest and living religions of the world and when it began it had no rivals ,which is why none of our Gods went warning sternly "Thou shalt not worship any other God".That is why we do not have jihads/crusades to further the glory of Gad!/Yahweh!/Allah! and enslave more people to fall in line with those believers in submission/surrender!Heaven and hell is not an accepted concept in Hinduism,although later literature introduced it ,corrupting the creed. Talking about castism,it was originally used to signify profession.Obviously a highly qualified Doctor/Engineer/physicist/technocrat/author ,philosopher,/ Professors/intellectuals/nuclear scientists,,etc. cannot be asked to do the job of a janitor or bricklayer,or any unskilled work not befitting their education and professional competence. Would'nt you say to your kids to get well educated to rise well in the society? Karma , infact , says the same that if you do not conduct yourself in a cultured and civilized way you are bound to face the consequences of your actions. Thats all, where does Karma support or encourage castism? Would'nt a modern justice system sentence a criminal to a jail term according to the nature or gravity of the crime? Or do you prefer the Koranic/Biblical justice of eye for eye /tooth for tooth,chop off the hands,chop off the legs,stone to death,give 100 lashes ,or God?Yahweh?Allah consign the person to eternal flames forever! I prefer karma anyday as against your irrational and barbaric muck!


Name:
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 10:19:14 -0700

Comment

"There is no infinite punishment for finite violations." Obviously, this isn't true in Indian society since some people are made to suffer for sins in a past life. From National Geographic: Human rights abuses against these people, known as Dalits, are legion. A random sampling of headlines in mainstream Indian newspapers tells their story: "Dalit boy beaten to death for plucking flowers"; "Dalit tortured by cops for three days"; "Dalit 'witch' paraded naked in Bihar"; "Dalit killed in lock-up at Kurnool"; "7 Dalits burnt alive in caste clash"; "5 Dalits lynched in Haryana"; "Dalit woman gang-raped, paraded naked"; "Police egged on mob to lynch Dalits". Dalits are not allowed to drink from the same wells, attend the same temples, wear shoes in the presence of an upper caste, or drink from the same cups in tea stalls," said Smita Narula, a senior researcher with Human Rights Watch, and author of Broken People: Caste Violence Against India's "Untouchables." Human Rights Watch is a worldwide activist organization based in New York." - Wow! and you say there are people treated worse? " ...the sins of Girdharilal Maurya are many, his attackers insisted. He has bad karma. Why else would he, like his ancestors, be born an Untouchable, if not to pay for his past lives? Look, he is a leatherworker, and Hindu law says that working with animal skins makes him unclean, someone to avoid and revile. And his unseemly prosperity is a sin. Who does this Untouchable think he is, buying a small plot of land outside the village? Then he dared speak up, to the police and other authorities, demanding to use the new village well. He got what Untouchables deserve. One night, while Maurya was away in a nearby city, eight men from the higher Rajput caste came to his farm. They broke his fences, stole his tractor, beat his wife and daughter, and burned down his house. The message was clear: Stay at the bottom where you belong." - Notice the refernce to the victim's karma as an excuse for abusing him. Is it any wonder that these lower castes are always eagr to support any colonizig power in India? Any wonder that so many convert to Sikkhism, Islam, Christianity, and Buddhism? By the way, you're making a sweeping generalizing of the semetic faiths. The fire and brimstone days of Christianity have been over for quite some time and Judaism doesn't stress the afterlife at all. "Statistics compiled by India's National Crime Records Bureau indicate that in the year 2000, the last year for which figures are available, 25,455 crimes were committed against Dalits. Every hour two Dalits are assaulted; every day three Dalit women are raped, two Dalits are murdered, and two Dalit homes are torched." If karma and casteism are not related, then tell that to your neighbors.


Name:
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 10:49:45 -0700

Comment

Andrew Stunich is a racist bigot who is trying to divide Jews and Muslims in the name of religion. Arab-Israeli Conflict has nothing to do with religion - every sane people knows that. It's purely a political issue. Arab-Israeli Conflict didn't exist before 1947. Quran is the only Book on the earth where Jews and Christians have their Salvation. Their Salvation has been promised by God (Allah).


Name:
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 10:51:15 -0700

Comment

Quran is the only Book on the earth where Jews and Christians have their Salvation. Their Salvation has been promised by God (Allah). [Quran 2:62]


Name:
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 10:55:40 -0700

Comment

Actually, before 1947 there wasn't a century when there hadn't been a massacre of Jews by Muslims. Just look at the bigoted, apartheid-like Pact of Umar and the dhimmi laws and the jizya tax. In Egypt, a Muslim had the right to throw stones and spit on Jews but if Jews raised their hands to block their faces, they could be punished for raising their hands to a "believer". Talk about bigotry...


Name: vbv
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 21:33:00 -0700

Comment

To--- Again you are writing some nonsense.You are attributing pre-meditated acts of crime for personal greed/revenge,or just any other unjustifiable social cause to Karma.If a person is robbed / mugged by a criminal , you can't say it is the result of the karma ,it is just an act of crime.That's all. Karma, as I have written earlier is only a concept to deter people from going morally astray. It would be silly to attribute every action to Karma ,which is like a defeatist resigning everything to 'Fate'. Then it will be a convenient tool to blame one's fortune or misfortune to Karma of your previous action/birth,etc. It was designed as a deterrent and not an escapists route to exploit and the helplessly weak to accept docilely attrocities perpetrated on them saying that is their 'karma',which would be sheer cowardice. In Bhagawath Geetha , also, Krishna asks Arjuna to face and fight evil and injustice and not resign and blame your karma.The events that you describe are indeed shameful and every Indian should hang his head in shame ; but these are crimes committed by fanatics, who I think are as die-hard fanatics as the fanatics of other creeds (Islam/Judaism/christianity),who want preserve their so-called social status and prejudices at any cost. I never defended such criminals ever in my life.But that has nothing to do with the principle of Karma, which I again repeat that it was only a concept to prevent/pre-empt moral transgression and crime,not an excuse to further your personal agenda.The law in India state preaching or practicing untouchability is a non-bailable offence (and rightly so) in the Indian Penal Code,but there seems to be no political will to implement it. This is the fault of the vested interests,the politicians and the law-enforcing agencies,which has become the politicians crooked tool. Mind you we do have a sizable number of elected representatives in the Parliament and state assemblies ,including ministers of the government,from the Dalits,Scheduled Tribes and the backward classes. It is difficult to explain how these shameful incidences takes place despite all this. This has got nothing to do with the Karma or the Hindu religion at all.Hindu religion does denigrate other religions to further itself nor wants converts to bring "glory"to its gods.Don't worry,despite all these digressions ,ihave not lost my perspective,nor will I ever be bamboozled in conceding to your prejudices about Indian culture and civilization which has stood the test of time for several millenia,while you Europeans have sold yourselves to semetic creeds ,ditching your own pagan but tolerant creeds, which are bigoted,intolerant,violent,irrational,superstitious,etc.


Name: al kafiroon ei jannat
Date: Sunday September 02, 2007
Time: 22:47:31 -0700

Comment

there was no adam/eve or nor from any god mouth brahmin came or etc.... man evolved by nature. religion caste etc is a man created concept to control the many by the few. there any god nor any jehova/allah exists. religion and related ideolody like communism,fascism etc...is the root of our suffering today. pls stop thie religion bullshit else world war 3 is coming soon.


Name: vbv
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 02:24:10 -0700

Comment

To Alkafiroon ei Janat -- I fully share your views on religion and also my views coincide with your views that we are all a product of natural evolution and nothing else.Religion is just man-made bullshit. It is the same point I have been driving at with some anonymous dude ,who was trying to project that the religions of the semetic tribes are superior to the Eastern cults such as Hinduism,Budhism, Taoism,Jainism,etc. I am an atheist and I don't subscribe to any of the faiths above-mentioned,but only to Humanism supported by proven scientific facts,thats all.


Name:
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 02:45:52 -0700

Comment

"o your prejudices about Indian culture and civilization which has stood the test of time for several millenia." - I'm not prejudiced towards Indian culture or Hiduism in any way. But it's not beyond criticism either. If you choose to denigrate other people's beliefs,religions and cultures, be prepared to have your own criticized, hypocrite. "semetic creeds ,ditching your own pagan but tolerant creeds, which are bigoted,intolerant,violent,irrational,superstitious,etc." Yes, all of these terms can describe your society as well. A few government appointments doesn't change the overall situation. "Every hour two Dalits are assaulted; every day three Dalit women are raped, two Dalits are murdered, and two Dalit homes are torched." You'd like to attribute this to criminals and fanatics but since you don't take that stance when it comes to other faiths, we'll be consistent and say it comes from Hinduism. That's fair.


Name: vbv
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 02:58:25 -0700

Comment

To --- I wish to stress further that although I spoke about Karma favourably,it is only in relative terms to the semetic creeds, not in terms of Karma as the rationally acceptable fact. I just find it better and far more tolerant than the eternal,intemperate,cruel and barbaric punishments meted out for crimes committed by humans ,such as "chop off the hands/legs,stone to death,burn at stake,lashing in public",and your gods despatching the human to eternal blazing fire of "hell" forever. The worst crime according to your gods is apostating to another belief,becoming a 'heretic',or blaspheming the so-called prophets/saints,etc. I maintain that all religions are bullshits ,but the semetic ones are notoriously intolerant and barbaric bullshits ,which is a definite ticket to "dark ages"! I believe in Humanism supported by scientific facts of evolution and the Universe,not scriptural trash! Religion divides and breeds hatred ( each creed debunking the other in an attempt to prove their own superiority,by proselytising,conversion,threatening ,all to further that particular creed and its deity). I also subscribe to Christopher Hitchens' view that religion only poisons and creates intolerance. I fully subscribe to Richard Dawkins and his enlightening book "God Delusion". I also enjoyed reading Carl Sagan's book "Cosmos". Even in the West many have criticised the unjust war and consequent mayhem and unrest culminating in more divisions within that country and never-ending bloodshed with over 600,000 lives lost. This is as barbaric as Mohamed,s wars to impose islam,only here "WMD" became a convenient scapegoat to rob the Iraqi OIL. Whatever diversionery tactics you may adopt to deviate from these two issues wiil not deter my point of view. So there!


Name:
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 02:59:57 -0700

Comment

"It is the same point I have been driving at with some anonymous dude ,who was trying to project that the religions of the semetic tribes are superior to the Eastern cults such as Hinduism,Budhism, Taoism,Jainism,etc." - I don't believe that nor have I said anything like it.


Name:
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 03:37:44 -0700

Comment

"I just find it better and far more tolerant than the eternal,intemperate,cruel and barbaric punishments meted out for crimes committed by humans ,such as "chop off the hands/legs,stone to death,burn at stake,lashing in public",and your gods despatching the human to eternal blazing fire of "hell" forever. The worst crime according to your gods is apostating to another belief,becoming a 'heretic',or blaspheming the so-called prophets/saints,etc." - And I take it, you are such an expert on the histories and theology of all of the three faiths you are referring to know that they all believe the same on the issues: 1) the nature of God, 2)the afterlife, 3)apostacy, and 4) punishment for crimes? Very impressive.


Name: >No Sharia
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 03:57:54 -0700

Comment

"Iran and several other Islamic states will eventually attack Israel after a decline in Israel's relative regional military supremacy. The conflict will eventually result in the exchange of nuclear weapons or some other type of weapons of mass destruction." It is not certain that the current regime in Iran will survive so long that Iran will be a part of this future attack. Iran may sooner or later have its revolution even if the regime looks fairly stable today, and the future government in Iran may be a much better one with strong secular tendencies. However, other islamic countries will eventuelly attack if Israel continues its military decline. But it may not be necessary to use nuclear weapons even then if survival is the only issue. One should never discount the degree of incompetence of islamic regimes. The basic question for Israel regarding use of nuclear weapons is probably not "Survival or use of atomic weapons". The question is : "At which death-rate and partial destruction of Israeli infrastructure will Israel retaliate with nuclear weapons ?" If the government hasn´t already the answer to that question, there is a reason to formulate it now. Another question is how to make next war between arabs and Israel the war that stops similar aggressive wars in the Middle East during the next century ? That is the natural goal, and there are a number of alternatives to reach it. Traditional islam/islamism must be deprived its fuel and have its ability to influence politics drastically weakened. How does one reach that goal ? Regards,No Sharia


Name: vbv
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 05:42:31 -0700

Comment

To--- There is nothing to be an expert of such a trash called god -the semetic 'supercop' who has nothing to do in the Universe than to poke his nose in the trivial actions of every person.The concept of 'god' itself is a primitive man's creation to exploit the gullible. It is not something that you require any great intelligence! How about you? Are you an expert in this field especially in the eastern religions, that you can question my competence? You are quoting figures ( imaginery?) about attrocities on Dalits in India,why not raise the same question about blacks in USA ,who count for the majority in your jails ,almost 90% of the inmates! Don't shed crocdile tears when the Blacks were imported from Africa to work as slaves/bonded labourers,what about the genocide of the native Americans whom you decimated like vermins grabbing all their lands.We don't need your pontificating to us when the state of your human rights is very dismal as regards blacks and other minorities. You have usurped other peoples lands ,completely wiped out mercilessly the original inhabitants and you have the temirity to point fingers at a civilization that has stood the test of time although it was subjected to barbarious invasions for over two millennia!If the Indian culture was weak it would have buckled a long time ago like the Europeans who have meekly surrendered to the semetic barbarian cults. So keep your nonsense tand lies to yourself!


Name:
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 06:37:56 -0700

Comment

"is nothing to be an expert of such a trash called god -the semetic 'supercop' who has nothing to do in the Universe than to poke his nose in the trivial actions of every person." I guess, if you consider ethical behavior to be trivial. - "Are you an expert in this field especially in the eastern religions, that you can question my competence?" Nope and I, unlike you, don't pretend to be expert nor do I insult and belittle the Eastern faiths, as you do Midle Eastern faiths, even though Eastern cultures are not without their own flaws. The only finger pointing I'm doing is toward your hypocrisy and nothing else.


Name:
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 06:45:49 -0700

Comment

The stats regarding crimes against the Dalits are from India's National Crime Records Bureau. I didn't make them up.


Name: vbv
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 07:29:10 -0700

Comment

To--- USA has always been notorious for their criminals gangsters and dons in the world and their popular literaure abounds with godfathers/dons portrayed as great heroes.The rate of crime ,rape etc .has always been among the highest in the world and you are painting a picture of India as though it has the worst record in the world.If this is not hypocisy,what else is it? If you want to be a slave of the semetic creed , I am not bothered in the least,but I would rather be proud of my culture than be a slave to a foreign iconoclastic,bigoted,lewd,vulgar and intolerant creed.


Name:
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 08:16:41 -0700

Comment

You're still the hypocrite. I never said America was perfect or even better than any nation nor have I tried to defend America's crimes. Unlike you, who sweeps crimes against minorities in your country under the rug. You keep using words like "bigoted,lewd,vulgar and intolerant" to describe the beliefs of millions of people you, for the most part, don't know. That's bigotry and intolerance. "I am not bothered in the least,but I would rather be proud of my culture... " You think people in East Asia are not proud of their respective cultures even though many of them prractice the Indian-Nepalese religion of Buddhism?


Name: birdseye
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 10:04:22 -0700

Comment

I agree some hindus have customs and traditions that may seem strange to other people. but that is the beauty of the religion it allows you to experiment and find your way to the truth or practice whatever gives you spiritual contentment. No one has the right to criticize that. But anything that interferes with other people's rights or way of life needs to be questioned. Discrimnating based on castes or heritage is bad, that is unfortuntately in the legacy of all indians and in other parts of the world for that matter.


Name: vbv
Date: Monday September 03, 2007
Time: 23:31:18 -0700

Comment

To--- If you call me hypocrite, what is West doing - they want 'democracy' (or is it just oil?) in Iraq ,but not in Saudi Arabia,because they are having all the fingers the pie (or is it oil,again?),while they couldn't care less about Sudan and the disaster in Darfur. Again a few years back ,when the white farmers owning lands in Zimbabwe were to be nationalised and redistributed among the original inhabitants of Zimbabwe,the British were crying hoarse about 'human rights',what about South Africa ,where it took the combined efforts of the non-aligned countries to impose sanctions against the apartheid regime there much against the wishes of the whiteman? The Iraq imbroglio seems to be heading towards another 'Vietnam' for the USA,while their bravado against North Korea or Iran is nothing but empty gas-bag threats.Talk about hypocrisy,the worst offenders are the West,the self-serving ,pompuous skunks!


Name:
Date: Tuesday September 04, 2007
Time: 06:27:27 -0700

Comment

vbv - The idea behind the Iraq war was that Iraq being an oil-producing country could be a sustainable democracy in the ME and that it would influence the other countries, in time, to democratize. Obviously, this hypothesis failed but there's nothing hypocritical about it. As for North Korea, we did go to war with them and still have troops in South Korea. You think we'd be better off attacking nuclear-armed North Korea, putting the south and the Japanese in jeopardy? Furthermore, I'm not responsible for every action taken by a Western government. That you would suggest it shows how bigoted you really are. After all, are you responsible for the actions of the Pakistanis and the Bengladeshis? Why not, they look like Indians? Are you responsible for the, on average, 3 so-called "untouchable" Dalit women that will be raped today because of their caste? You share the same beliefs as the attackers. Does India care about the people in southern Sudan? Yep, they care because those people live on land where the oil is and the Indian government is developing contracts with the govertment in the Khartoum for access to it. So what if the government is sending in troops to wipe out the villages there to make room for future refineries, right? What's good for India is all that matters. But bvb, I'll grant you this, India is better than USA in that it doesn't bother to pretend to be a moral country.


Name: vbv
Date: Wednesday September 05, 2007
Time: 02:31:19 -0700

Comment

To --- We are not responsible for Pakistan or Bangladesh.It is islam that is responsible. They are not all Dalits ,but other so-called upper-cast hindus whose ancestors were forcibly converted to islam ,by the sword as it were.You find many of them still carrying uppercaste hindu titles such as Mallik,Choudhury,Khatri,etc.That process is still continuing .In 1947 Pakistan had over 16% hindu population and the erswhile East Pakistan(today's Bangladesh) had 30% hindus but today the hindu population is believed to be less than 1% in Pakistan and less than 6% in Bangladesh. You can refer to the exiled Bangladeshi writer Taslima Nasreen,s writings to know the reasons for this demographic disasters. You talk about castism in India,they are the bane of hindu society,then why should Christians and muslims clamour for quota in education institutions and govt. jobs? Islam and Christianity has obviously failed to emancipate them.The cast sytem is still deeply entrenched in even muslim and christian societies.I have personal knowledge of this. You may also see the matrimonial columns in newspapers where you can see Nadar christians/schedule cast christians or muslims,Dalit christian/muslim,etc.I want to emphasize again that caste originally was categorisation based on education and profession/skill.It was never based on colour or creed.It later degenerated into a foul practice of discrmination amongst people. It is just like vegetarianism amongst the 'brahmins. In the vedic times brahmins consumed meat and fish. The Vedic seers were forest dwellers and did not cultivate any land. It was the influence of Budhist and the Jains who reviled consumption of meat , that these brahmins also adopted vegetarianism,making an exception to dairy products like milk,yoghurt,or cheese. It is some kind of holier-than-thou attitude inculcated by them. Even today,the brahmins in Bengal and in the west of India do consume fish as an exception.What I am driving at is that hinduism is not monolythic creed founded by one person like the semetic creeds. You can say it grew organically with the progress of society.There is no founder for this religion,nay,you can hardly call it a religion but just a way of life ,which includes also atheism. After all the principle of the Vedanta philosophy is " Aham Brahmasmi" and "Tat Tvam Asi",very simple but profound.It translates as "I am the principle underlying the entire Cosmos and existence" and "So are you". Infact everything that exists ,including you and I are just that part of the Cosmos.There is none superior or inferior. The Universe or Cosmos has no beginning or end ,everything is in a state of flux,continuously evolving.In a microcosmic situation things seems to have a beginning and an end but in macrocosmic situation there seems to be no beginning or end.That's what 'Mandukya Upanishad' says and it does not say if you don't believe this you will go to Hell! All the Upanishads , which are an integral part of the Vedas, instigate you to think rationally and independently ,it does not force you to conform to its perspective nor threaten you with dire consequences if you don't fall in line! No supercop here! Infact the Rigveda itself encourages skepticism, see Book 10,Hymn 75,Hymn 129,etc,from the translations rendered by Ralph T.H.Griffith, a late 19th century British Indologist. You can read any other translation by well-known Indologists such as Max Mueller or Wendy Donigert,it remains the same,anyway. The 'gods' of the vedas were simply natural phenomenon and human beings,whether primitive or modern are at the mercy of nature ( You have El Nino,Tsunamis,floods,earthquakes ,etc. which are unavoidable),the Vedic man ,being a primitive man ,naturally appealed through his prayers/songs to these natural phenomenon to be kinder and not create disasters. Thats all. Otherwise he was a normal human being just like us. He was more susceptible than us to be affected by these natural disasters , since we have satellites giving early warning for the people to be relocated,which he did not have. Further the primitive man is a purely agrarian person and he depends on good seasonal rains to help produce grains and cereals. So the Vedic man just appealed to nature as he saw to help him in his endeavour. There is nothing more to it. In a way the vedic man was also rational given the limitation of lack of modern science and technology. Even, we with all the science and technology cannot predict eathquake/Tsunami well in advance to save human lives,so you can imagine the plight of the primitive human ,5000 or 6000 years ago. There is no god delusion here and no hell/heaven here. The concept of semetic 'god' the supercop never was there in hinduism. That is why we are far more tolerant than the followers of the Abrahamic religions to others point of view.Thats why St.Thomas could come to India in 1st century AD and live to preach,and so also the parsis who were persecuted by the Arabs trying to forcibly convert them to islam came to India and kept Zoroastrianism alive till today. You will not find such tolerant people in any part of the world. If there are aberrations,it was more due to incitement from the other side. After all there is a limit to patience and tolerance,you can't bring it to a breaking point and expect us to just grin and bear it!


Name: vbv
Date: Wednesday September 05, 2007
Time: 03:37:26 -0700

Comment

To--- Again you are harping on 'Dalit'women getting raped.Criminals rape any women ,not just Dalits.It's only because Dalit women news coverage ,while others do not.Rape victims come mainly poorer /economically weaker segments of the society, the rapists is just a criminal and nothing more,while you are bent upon showing that only dalits are getting raped and others are all just 'gung-ho!'. In India you find back-breaking poverty not only among the Dalits ,but also the backward classes,scheduled tribes, the muslims, christians,upercasts(including brahmins),etc. The only relatively prosperous community may be the Parsis,who may be also free from having any rape-victims. Economic deprivation may one of the causes for a frustrated and demented individual,not the least porn/other lewd literatures having a momentary but powerful impact. Not to trivialise,Rape is a heinous crime that should not be viewed in tinted glasses,whether in India or elsewhere. Does India care about Sudan? Ofcourse India does care but it is not super-rich like the West,specially USA or Germany (the worlds largest and second largest economies) that it can afford to give massive aid,while substantial amount of its own population are languishing for food. We do not have millions of tons of surplus grains and cereals that can be dumped in the Pacific Ocean just like that! we don't have multinational companies that exploit and fleece third world countries nor do we give "aid" to other countries just to buy-back our produce to boost our corporations' profits,and we certainly are poor and in no postion to dictate foreign policy to other countries (we wouldn't do that even if were capable of it) -"either you are with us or against us". Even when India was very prosperous,for eg. during the reign of Ashoka the Great,in tne 3rd Century BCE, it only sent emissaries to other countries ,not armies to get submission. In the 3rd. Millenium BCE we know of Indus Valley Civilization,which prospered for nearly 2 millenia without any wars.This is the Land of Budha,Gandhi,Mahaveer Jain ,allgreat pacifists and who have inspired other great pacifists such as Tolstoy and Thoreau. We never had Chengiz Khan,Mohamed,Hitler,Stalin ,Atilla the Hun and the like born on our soil,nor did we ever have "jealous and vengeful" gods like Yahweh/Allah!


Name:
Date: Wednesday September 05, 2007
Time: 09:24:33 -0700

Comment

Is poverty the reason why there are separate drinking fountains and wells in India? Yes, we used to have them in the States as well but now they are regarded as a shameul part of our past, while in India they still remain. Does it also explain all the other crimes and acts of degradation committed against the lower castes? . Not even by sick individuals but by groups of people. How about the massacre of the Sikkhs at their Golden Temple? Nice way to treat the group who is mainly responsible for your independence. By the way, you say India cares about Sudan but your government still supports the government there that is responsible for the genocidal crimes. Yes, India cares about the Sudan. Its oil supply and nothing else.


Name: vbv
Date: Wednesday September 05, 2007
Time: 23:36:39 -0700

Comment

To---- Again you are writing nonsense.I stay in India there are no seperate wells according to caste/creed in India except in some areas of certain backward North Indian States,which are culturally and educationally retarded. I come from South India and no such discrimination is practiced. You find these cases mostly in the states of UP,Bihar,Rajasthan and parts of MP. Certainly not in Southern States,Maharshtra, ,West Bengal,Punjab or the North Eastern States. You cannot castigate the entire country for the doings of a few ultra-orthodox /conservative madcaps. It was never a State policy to practice apartheid ,either overtly or covertly like in the West.What is the status of the Aborogines in Australia? The Kangaroos and Koalas have more rights than the original human inhabitants there.They are converted to Christianity ,but are they really emancipated and are they really getting any economic benefits that the whiteman enjoys?This is the height of hypocrisy! In India the Dalits and the Backward classes have their rights by constitution guarantees,they elect their representatives,they participate in the governance of the country,they have chief ministers and cabinet ministers,they are in the institutions of higher learnings/Universties by the dint of their own efforts,in the civil administration,in business and industry,etc. A few instances of the so-called upper caste moronic and barbarous behaviour cannot be taken as a general rule. Sudan,as far as my knowledge goes , does not have oil,otherwise you would have bombed them also for "WMD" and for the good of promoting "democracy", like what is happening in UIraq. They are not part of the Cartel "OPEC" either.They are poor African nation just south of Egypt.So don't lie to foist your misinformations on me,which is typical of the "hypocritical" West to futher their rotten and immoral agenda! You are just as the Abrahamic creeds which permits "Taqiyya" to promote their creed and claim more followers and destroy all indigenous cultures!I don't expect anything better from you.


Name: vbv
Date: Thursday September 06, 2007
Time: 03:36:38 -0700

Comment

To----"massacre of sikhs in golden temple"? Another of your tactics to spread lies and misinformation. They wre just not sikhs ,but terrorists like the one responsible for exploding in mid-air Air India Flight "Kanishka" with passengers in it.Sikhs do not murder innocent people and it was never in their culture. I meet sikhs in my country and I know them to be hard-working and sincere individuals far above pettyness.The seperatists instigated by Pakistan wanted to carve out a "Khalistan" from India, which is not the wish of almost all sikhs in India,whose economic interests are spread throughout the country ( and they know the foolishness of the proposition and the disasterous consequences that would follow for their community as they would lose all their business interests in other parts of India).Worse , even if they succeeded their "Khalistan" would be landlocked between India and Pakistan and they have to live on the good offices and gestures of both the countries. The main motive was that of Pakistan to dismember India and gobble up the so-called "Khalistan", merging it into Pakistan and also 'islamise' it. The govt. had no option but to attack the golden temple in which civilian deaths also ,unfortunately,occurred ,which in your American parlance can call it "collateral damages". Talking about human rights and democracy ,the west(especially USA) looked the other way when over a decade back two small counties ,south of Uganda, Ruanda and Burundi were involved in genocide and ethnic cleansing,killing over two miilion people in the process. There was no talk of Humanrights and implementing 'democracy' in those two small but poor countries. Why? Because there was no 'oil' there.Nothing to fleece! With that kind of fragile morality you should'nt try to pick holes in others armory and pontificate from a 'pulpit'! Your religious history is full of violence,intolerable violence,and you use religion as a convenient tool to beat a weak opponent into submission!


Name:
Date: Thursday September 06, 2007
Time: 03:40:23 -0700

Comment

“You cannot castigate the entire country for the doings of a few ultra-orthodox /conservative madcaps.” Why not? You do that to others. “It was never a State policy to practice apartheid ,either overtly or covertly like in the West.” Oh yes it is. “Sudan,as far as my knowledge goes , does not have oil…” – Wrong again.


Name:
Date: Thursday September 06, 2007
Time: 04:30:48 -0700

Comment

Terrorists, eh In the last 30 years the Indian authorities have unleashed a rein of terror through gross violation of human rights of Sikhs in an attempt to extinguish the calls for freedom and Sikh independence. In June 1984 the Indian army attacked the Golden Temple Complex and 125 other Sikh Gurdwaras in Punjab and massacred tens of thousands of innocent Sikh pilgrims. This laid the foundation stone for an independent sovereign Sikh State, Khalistan. In November 1984 tens of thousands of innocent Sikhs were massacred in Delhi and over 130 other cities throughout India by well-orchestrated mobs under the direct supervision of senior Indian politicians and officials. Over 250,000 Sikhs have been murdered and disappeared since 1984. Many Sikh political prisoners still languish in Indian jails without charge or trial and others have been falsely charged and sentenced to death by hanging. Illegal detention and torture of Sikhs is common place and well documented by independent human rights organisations. (from a Sikh website)


Name: vbv
Date: Thursday September 06, 2007
Time: 05:25:39 -0700

Comment

To--- You are talking bullshit! You are referring to a so-called website , maybe of a frustrated "khalistani". I have personal knowledge that sikhs in India are not discriminated and are spread over the entire length and breadth of this wonderful country and are peaceful and prosperous . I don't need the certificate of a man sitting 10,000 miles away with anti Indian prejudice spreading lies. Whereas you are the greatest hypocrits who have decimated the original inhabitants of the USA?Canada ,and what little of them are remaining are kept like animals in a zoo in Specified reserves,while you enjoy the rest of the country. You are not only a foul hypocrite ,but also the Christian fanatic pretending to be righteous,with a long history of slavery,witch-hunting,burning 'heretics,looting and occupying others lands,committing genocides,and what have you,Heh? Keep your rotten double standards to yourself. If there was genocide in India you wouldn't find people of different creeds living together for centuries. So keep your rotten lies to yourself ,we in India know the truth about our country,and we don't need hypocrites and criminals in garb to ponitificate to us.


Name:
Date: Thursday September 06, 2007
Time: 06:05:01 -0700

Comment

The native Americans are not kept on reservations. They can live wherever they wish. On the reservations, they govern themselves independent of American law and do not pay taxes. The Sikhs were promised similar autonomy, especially after being the bulk of the soldiers for India's independence, but were later denied. No slavery or witch-hunts in India you say? Very funny.


Name: vbv
Date: Thursday September 06, 2007
Time: 23:59:41 -0700

Comment

To--- You are blinded by your own lies! The fact that sikhs in India identify themselves as Indians is proved by the fact that our present Prime Minister is a sikh ,so also the Deputy Chairman of India's Plannining Commission is Dr. Montek Singh Aluhwalia ,about two decades back Giani Zail Singh was the President of India, so also Sikhs are holding major positions in govt. and industry,there are many thousands doing very well in business. You can't say the same thing about native Americans/Australians who are second class citizens in their own country.Christians have their hands soaked in blood in almost every part of the world in pressing their conversion agenda and subjugating the natives with their Christian missioneries , breaking the will of the natives to fight back.All these are the notorious tactics of the colonialists,well-known in history. One of the ways was to divide and rule, by spreading lies and misinformation as you have done.What can be expected out of the followers of Abrahamic faiths,where Abraham sleeps with his Egyptian 'slave' (mind you the holyman practicing slavery) to beget Ismael;his nephew Lot sleeping with his own daughters to give them progeny;Judah(chapter 38 of 'Genesis') sleeping with his daughter in-law to beget a 'son'; the lecherous life-style of Solomon the 'wise, and so on.To crown it all you have god 'Yahweh' sleeping with 'virgin' Mary to beget Jesus,the only 'son' of god? The very same god who says in one of his ten commandments "THOU shalt not commit Adultery". These are stories from your own 'Bible' ,not something I made up. Should Yahweh also not be stoned to death as per Deutronomy 'or Sharia law? So keep your trash and prejudice against non-semetic creeds to yourself. Thats all!


Name: hammar22
Date: Saturday September 22, 2007
Time: 14:23:30 -0700

Comment

When all is said and done...in the end no other then the "Lord Jesus Christ" will come to sort out all the souls whether lost or inherited. Shalom brothers and sisters!


Name: vbv
Date: Sunday September 23, 2007
Time: 00:48:43 -0700

Comment

Hammar22 -- You must be joking! Jesus coming to sort out souls?This is nothing but stupid 'doomsday' mythology.It is irrational and the stupidest belief! Now Jesus couldn't save himself from the pathetic plight of hanging nailed to a cross from where he moaned"Father why did you forsake me?".A man who couldn't save himself from such a pitiable predicament cannot save anybody from anything! It is only our good karma that can redeem us from the cosequences of our sins and nothing else.That is something logical and natural.No human or divine intervention rquired and no "god" acting as a supercop!


Name:
Date: Sunday December 02, 2007
Time: 20:55:28 -0700

Comment

I think the key to Israel's future lies in the theoretical realm: proofs are now coming in thick and fast that Islam is incompatible with democracy, which requires the sovereignty of the people, not that of Allah, as his will is communicated by the sacred texts and interpreted by the classical jurists. Turkey, Malaysia and Indonesia are really pseudo-democracies; the idea of creating truly representative states in Iraq and Afghanistan is rendered ridiculous by their having constitutions that are subordinate to the principles of sharia. The idea that Iran is a voting democracy, seriously put to Blair by a BBC interviewer in the last week, was disposed of by the ex-PM pointing out that two thirds of the candidates had been barred. Crucially, democracy requires legal equality for religious minorities and of the sexes: Islam cannot deliver. Constant re-iteration of this argument, coupled with emphasis on the essentially democratic nature of the Israeli ( such restrictions as non-military service for Muslims are perfectly understandable in the circumstances) will lead to the west fiercely guaranteeing its existence - as a bastion of democracy in the middle east. When Melanie Philips used that phrase on a UK TV talk show, broadcast during a bout of Sharon's incursions into Palestinian areas, the audience spontaneously burst into laughter.n Philip's attributed this to British anti-Semitism. The real reason was an artful process of playing the victim over decades by the Muslim world and the refusal of western liberals to recognise the anti-democratic nature of Islam. In a free society these views can be argued for and, because they are an accurate reflection of reality, they will eventually prevail. Once this happens Israel's future security will be totally secure: the west will regard it as one of their own. People should be talking about possible Israeli membership of the EU, not that of the Islam-benighted Turks.


Name: Kiran, India
Date: Tuesday January 15, 2008
Time: 01:38:55 -0700

Comment

Going by the news coming out of southern Thailand, it appears the tragedy of radical islamic militancy is raising it's ugly head even there..is there any country with a substantial muslim population where things are peaceful? -apart from the arabic world that is,where they've already finished off everyone else


Name: Kiran, India
Date: Tuesday January 15, 2008
Time: 02:11:04 -0700

Comment

Going by the news coming out of southern Thailand, it appears the tragedy of radical islamic militancy is raising it's ugly head even there..is there any country with a substantial muslim population where things are peaceful? -apart from the arabic world that is,where they've already finished off everyone else


Name: k stunich
Date: Tuesday February 19, 2008
Time: 17:34:35 -0700

Comment

before placing tags on mr stunich find out what he stands for. his family history has alot of twist and turns and the family does indepth studies before opening their mouths . i am a distance cousin of mr stunich and am proud of his work


Name: bob prichard
Date: Sunday March 16, 2008
Time: 12:20:42 -0700

Comment

oh yes hello..i think this web site is very imformative!


Name: Andrew Stunich
Date: Sunday July 13, 2008
Time: 17:47:56 -0700

Comment

I have finally found a well-known person that seems to agree with me as to the root cause of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. I picked up Brigitte Gabriel's book entitled "Because They Hate" at the book store today and read it in one sitting. It is a very interesting story. She combines her story of growing up in Lebanon with very sound insight into Arab culture, Lebanon's tragedy, Israel and Islam. I was so fascinated with her story that I could not put it down. On page 115, Ms. Gabriel writes: "They [the news media] considered the overall Arab-Israeli conflict a Palestinian-versus-Israeli conflict over land. Yet in all these conflicts radical Islam was the driving force or lingered just under the surface."


 
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