Kareem Amer was interviewed by Copts United after being investigated by Al-Azhar University for his online writings. As a result, he was charged with disdaining religions, insulting Al-Azhar’s teachers, and atheism. A few days later, he was formally expelled, and the Dean of the Sharia & Law Faculty, Dr. Hamdi Shalby, submitted a copy of the investigation documents to the Public Prosecutor.

The two videos below were recorded during his two-part interview. We have provided English subtitles and transcripts below.

(Thanks to Mina for providing the translation for the first video!)

Transcripts:

Following is a transcript from the first of a two-part interview with Egyptian blogger Abdul Kareem Nabeel Suleiman, which occurred on March 14, 2006. You can view the video with English subtitles here.

 

Interviewer: The young thinker Abdul Kareem Nabeel Suleiman: Welcome to Copts United. We welcome you, and we would you like to tell us about the investigation that was run today by the disciplinary board in Al-Azhar University. Go ahead.

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: Frankly, I wasn’t expecting you to label me as a thinker. I’m just a seeker of the truth. Thank you, you made me happy by your saying this, but I do not acknowledge that I am a thinker. I’m just a seeker of the truth. Today I headed for the college to attend the disciplinary board, and the lawyer Mr. Mamdouh Nakhla was with me. Our appointment was at 11:00 a.m. but we started a bit late, at 2:30 p.m. The investigation was initiated by four of the college professors: Dr. Abdul Hadi Zarea, Dr. Ra’fat Hammad, and two others.

 

Interviewer: Sir, we would like to know from you what the reason of the investigation is in the first place.

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: The reason of the investigation is some of my articles published on the Web sites of Modern Discussion and Copts United. There was an article in which I criticized Al Azhar University because of its segregation of male and female students; they accused me of insulting Al-Azhar University because of this article.

 

Interviewer: And is this wrong, or what?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: Well, I am criticizing and expressing my opinion. I am trying to criticize. The purpose of…

 

Interviewer: That’s what I mean. To Al-Azhar University, is criticism wrong? As well as freedom of expression, or what exactly?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: They prevent… In Al-Azhar, here in the university… In the end of the investigation, the told me that that this article is considered to be insulting and slanderous. They accused me of insulting and slandering, but I did not write anything of the sort. All I did was try to express my thoughts. I tried to criticize something I saw is wrong. But they interpreted it another way.

 

Interviewer: In a wrong way. ..  Mr. Abdul Kareem, we would like to know what exactly you are charged with.

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: I was charged with disdaining religions in general, and specifically Islam; as well as insulting and slandering the Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar University [inaudible] and one of the professors of the college here [Sharia & Law Faculty]. That’s all.

 

Interviewer: Anything else? ... Anything else?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: And another charge, I don’t know from where they got it from: Atheism.

 

Interviewer: Atheism? ....Mr. Abdul Kareem, we would like to know: How did the investigation end?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: The investigation ended by my refusal to sign on my statements. Not out of fear; I told them everything. I was frank with them about everything. However, I refused to sign because I don’t recognize the legitimacy of the disciplinary board. I told them in the end that they don’t have the right to investigate me inside the college for an activity I exercised away from list of rules that should bind me only inside the university. They imposed on me…

 

Interviewer: A certain way of thinking?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: Yes, indeed, they imposed on me a certain way of thinking, and they prevented me from even trying to think outside this framework.

 

Interviewer: What do you expect the result to be after the investigation? Or what will their judgment be?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: In reality, I have been expecting confronting Al-Azhar University for a long time. From the time I entered this university, I felt it’s not my place.

 

Interviewer: It’s not your place?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: Of course [it’s not my place].

 

Interviewer: Were these thoughts, Abdul Kareem, a reason for arresting you a while ago in Alexandria or not?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: Of course. I was previously arrested on the 26th of last October [2005], following the events that occurred at the church of Muharram Bek, because I wrote an article criticizing some of the acts of the demonstrators in the Muharram Bek area. They tried at that time to attack the church, and they assaulted some of the Copts and [stole] their property. So, I was held for eighteen days, and I was released after pressure from human rights organizations and other international bodies.

 

Interviewer: Thanks to the young thinker, Abdul Kareem Nabeel Suleiman, a second-year student in the Faculty of Sharia & Law at Al-Azhar University, Damanhour branch.

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Interview with Abdul Kareem Nabeel Suleiman, Part II

Following is a transcript from the second of a two-part interview with Egyptian blogger Abdul Kareem Nabeel Suleiman, which occurred on March 14, 2006. You can view the video with English subtitles here.

 

Interviewer: This is our second interview with the young thinker Abdul Kareem Nabeel Suleiman, a second-year student in the Faculty of Sharia & Law at Al-Azhar University, Damanhour branch, after taking a rest, and after he had calmed down after leaving the investigation. Mr. Abdul Kareem, welcome to our second interview. Could you provide us with an idea on the summary of today’s investigations at the Faculty of Sharia & Law?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: The investigation began at around 2:30 p.m. It was about some of what was brought up in my articles that were published on the Modern Discussion and Copts United Web sites. Among the professors who investigated me were Deputy Dean Dr. Abdul Hadi Zarea and former Dean Dr. Ra’fat Muhammad Hammad.

I was asked some questions regarding opinions I had expressed in my articles. They saw that these opinions constituted exceeding their red lines. Of course, I do not recognize the existence of such red lines in the first place, and never in my life have I been limited by a red line. The only red line is my relationship with others. That is the only red line that I might accept to limit the freedom of the individual.

I answered them in all frankness. I cannot let go of my frankness for any reason. No matter what the price is, I cannot let go of it. This might cause me trouble but I shall never rest until I am frank and until I have a single personality.

For example, I could have denied all what had happened, and to, as they say, ‘play on words’ by pretending that nothing had happened. However, I’d lose myself. What would I have gained? What would I have gained when what’s inside me is one thing, and what’s outside of me, what I tell and face people around me with, is something else? I’d surely lose myself. Even if I were to have gained people, and if people were to encourage me and were to be impressed with me, in the end, I would not be pleased with myself this way.

 

Interviewer: Mr. Abdul Kareem, can you tell us what you were specifically charged with, and what your response to these charges was?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: The disciplinary board accused me of three main charges. The first charge… They are ideological charges. It’s the first time for me to learn that an idea would be a charge. Today, when I went to the university, I learnt that I can commit a crime that does not have any physical effects: Thinking!

The first crime I was accused of committing was disdaining religions, and of course specifically Islam. I had not imagined that I would face a charge like this because it was never my intention to disdain any religion. The purpose of the existence of religions was to institute ethics that human beings can make use of in their lives. That was the purpose of the emergence of religions, regardless of how they were founded and what their origins are. Whether they are mythical or not is not our topic. I found them accusing me of disdaining religions.

The second charge: Atheism. I had written an article during the election period of the President of the Republic, titled “Pledge Allegiance to President Mubarak… As The Leader of the Believers!” The first paragraph of this article was interpreted by them as… Well, I was discussing in it the relationship between those with religious authority and those with political authority, and the ties that bring them together… That is, the benefits that bring them together. There are mutual benefits. For example, they monopolize the authority of deities. I employed a phrase that they used against me: I described god as ‘the imaginary being’. I did not mean it that way. Generally, in the view of some people, deities are imaginary, and there is no physical evidence to prove god’s existence. This does not mean that I am an atheist. I make my own point of view clear, and I write neutrally and stay away from claiming the existence of this god or that god. That was what I meant, but it was used against me.

The third charge they caught and used against me… It seems that they deliberately track down my mistakes. The most eloquent expression describing what they do is tracking down mistakes. They try to highlight my mistakes and bring anything against me. There was an article in which I criticized some of the policies of Al-Azhar University. I was discussing the idea of segregating male and female students. I described it as apartheid segregation, and indeed it is so, on the basis of the race of male students being separated from the race of female students. That generates problems. It gives them excessive repression, and each gender looks at the other gender as… Well, what’s forbidden is desired. They look at each other as strange beings, and as nonexistent in front of them, or not available for them. Once they get the chance, they tend to commit adultery. That was the topic I was handling.

I also criticized one of the doctors in a lecture who was teaching the students the invalidators of wudu [partial ablution]. In a blatant manner, he explained to the students wudu invalidators in an unethical way. So I criticized him, and they considered that to be insulting and slandering of this doctor.

There was also something else I had written about: When Dr. Muhammad Sayid Tantawy, the Grand Sheikh of Al-Azhar, tried to produce a document pledging allegiance to President Mubarak during the election period of the President of the Republic, from the Islamic Research Academy members, which they refused to do. The disciplinary board considered that this writing is insulting and slanderous.

 

Interviewer: Mr. Abdul Kareem, do you expect to be referred to investigatory agencies, aside from the disciplinary board?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: Well, in such a country where law is designed to serve certain aims, I do not rule out being referred to any agencies. However, this will not dissuade me from doing what I wish to do. It will not push me to leave the path I have begun to walk in. I shall walk in it in endlessness. In fact, it has no end. I don’t believe that this ideological way is ascending, but walking in it is endless. I’ll keep walking in it until I die.

 

Interviewer: Do you interpret the position of the university toward you as a personal one, or is it a public policy that aims to place many more restrictions on the freedom of expression, opinion, and belief?

Abdul Kareem Suleiman: In general, the policy of the university is one that denies the thinking of the ‘other’. It employs the policy of one opinion, one idea. It has no readiness to accept a differing idea to appear. Because of that, any idea that goes against its unidirectional ideas – that it wants to impose on its students – even if they do not publish on it… I have no publications inside the faculty or university, and my activities are almost completely limited to the articles I publish on the Internet. To be precise, the university aims to extract students’ minds. They do not want them to think. They want them to learn the material as it was brought down, and that they accept it and submit to it as it is. They cannot try to think of it, or to use their minds to think of it.

 

Interviewer: Thanks to Abdul Kareem Nabeel Suleiman, a second-year student in the Faculty of Sharia & Law at Al-Azhar University, Damanhour branch.