Reformist Quran: Putting a Happy Face on Evil
12 Apr, 2008
Note: We are unsure that there is a God at all. This article has been published here because of its perspectives relevant to our site.
This article has been edited.
-- Editor, MA Khan
Recently, I had the following email conversation with Edip Yuksel, a renowned Turkish reformist of Islam. He wrote:
Dear Larry:
... Did you have a chance to look at the 'Quran: a Reformist Translation?' I know you have a very strong opposition to what you know to be Quranic; but who knows, you might be able to open your mind and heart so that you might make some corrections in your accusations.
Peace, Edip
I wrote a response to him analyzing the Koran as presented in this article in a shortened form. Mr Yuksel reacted to my response as follows:
Larry:
You are angry and knowingly or unknowingly trying to justify the extermination of all Muslims. If you have any sense of justice and respect for truth, I invite you to show it in your reaction:
Your so-called "western civilization" just killed more than one million Iraqis, maimed millions, turned millions to orphans, widows and refugees, in war that was initiated based on a series of lies and deception.
If you have any decency, I would like to read an article of you condemning those who supported this war (the coalition of Neocons, evangelical Christians and Zionists) and their warmongering ideologies. Otherwise, I will consider you a stooge of the imperialist monster who is trying to instigate another holocaust, this time against muslims.
I would like to hear you Larry that you are a decent human being and your care about human life goes beyond tribal and religious affiliation. Then, I will respond to your diatribe.
Peace, Edip
Following is the summary of my E-mail on Mr. Edip's "Quran: A Reformist Translation".
Reformist Quran: Putting a Happy Face on Evil
Your book "Quran—A Reformist Translation" is nothing more then an
attempt to put a happy face on evil. The problem is not with the
English translations of the Koran but with Islam. The reality is
that the Koran is not the eternal divine word of god. God never
authored the Koran and a copy of the Koran is not in heaven. The
Koran is not the uncreated word of god valid for all times and
places.
- The issues raised by the recent revivalism of Islam are one of life and death to the secular democratic world. Islam is one of the most serious threats freedom-loving people have ever faced. It is the greatest threat that western women have faced to their hard won freedoms and legal protection of their basic rights. Islam is one of the most diabolical ideologies ever created.
- Islam has the potential to change mankind and a create a new
type of human being—a creature totally devoid of humanity, free
will and empathy—living in total submission to the brutal, hateful
will of Allah. Islam wants to create a new human species: homo-Islamo.
It has the potential to lead to extinction of the species, truly
human.
Muhammad invented Allah and turned him into a criminal god to give political power to himself and utilize the fictional teachings received from Allah as a religious and legal justification for his criminality. Muhammad never received any revelations from a god. Allah existed only in Muhammad's mind. Muhammad made up all the teachings of the Koran. Muhammad and Allah were two in one. - In Islam, deceit, torture, murder, assassination, massacre, genocide, pillage, robbery, enslavement and rape were made halal (legal) acts, deserving of paradise, as long as they were perpetrated on the infidels. These evil, immoral teachings became the eternal laws of Allah.
Islam is not a religion but a dangerous political and military ideology whose sole purpose is to conquer the world for Allah. The Koran is a declaration of war against the infidels. This war is permanent until all infidels have converted to Islam, or reduced to dhimmitude (institutionalized discrimination akin to slavery status) or murdered. Your book masks this cold-hard reality for the 'hear-no-evil, see-no-evil' naive infidels.
Koran is not author by God, but by Allah—the anti-God
In order for the Koran to be the divine word of god, a perfect entity—every word, every teaching must be perfect. If only one word/teaching of the Koran is not perfect or holds moral perfection for all mankind for all time, then the entire Koran is not a work of god. Every word, every teaching must be nonviolent. Your reformist Quran agenda suggests that all teachings in the Koran are not perfect. Therefore, the Koran is not the words/teachings of god, but of Allah.
Examination of your reformist version of the Koran
Following is but a very small sample of the close to 1000 evil teachings of hate, terror, murder and intolerance, that are criminal in any concept of laws, but are valid in the eternal laws of Allah. Regarding Muhammad's attack and slaughter of Banu Quraiza, the Koran says:- 33:26 Allah also brought down those who helped them, among the people of the book, from their secure positions, and he threw fear into their hearts. Some of them you killed, and some you took captive.
- Do you not hear the screaming and wailing of the women and children of the defenders as god brought their husbands, fathers and brothers (the defenders) down from their secured positions and threw fear into their hearts? Do you not feel the anguished torment of these women and their children? Do you not understand the terror instilled by god into the hearts of the old and the crippled, themselves the defenders against Muhammad's aggression?
Words of hate and terror stream out from the teaching 33:26: "he threw fear into their hearts" & "some you killed." Can you imagine the power of god, the creator of the universe—the full force of the sheer hatred of god striking fear and terror into the hearts and souls of innocent men, women and children, the old and the infirm? Like a sadist, God enjoys torturing these people. Like a master terrorist, he reviles in the moment. God drove the innocent Jews out of their secure forts in fear and terror, so that Muhammad and his co-jihadists could murder them and enslave the women and children.
Think about that for a moment. Can anybody in their right mind believe that god would commit such a brutal, immoral and hideous act? Allah clearly appear to be a criminal, mass murderer, sadist, psychopath—a deranged maniac. If at all, a perfect god will manifest himself only to show love and affection to his creatures—not to incite hate, violence and terror against any of them.
God never brought down the people of the book (Banu Quraiza Jews) from their secure positions for killing and enslaving them. God never threw fear into their hearts. It was Muhammad and his Jihadi murderers. Indisputably, sura 33:26 is a criminal and barbaric teaching. The Koran, therefore, is not a book of perfection, not authored by God, but by Allah.
Again, says Allah:- it was not you who killed them, but it was god who killed them. It was not you who launched when you did, but it was god who launched. So that those who acknowledge would be tested well by him. God is hearer, knowledgeable. [8:17]
- How evil is the Koranic teaching that shifts the blame of Muhammad and his murderous followers' indiscriminate killing of infidels on to god's shoulder. It is unacceptable even to invoke god in acts of evil. Verse 8:17 is one of the most despicable, immoral teachings of the Koran. In order to justify mass murder, in order to allay the pangs of conscience of his Muslim murderers, Muhammad fabricates that "it was not you who killed them but it was god who killed them." In this verse, Allah advises Muhammad's followers: 'Don't worry about those mindless murders; do not have any nightmares; do not have any feelings of remorse and regret—instead, steel your hearts against the enemies of god.' God did a good thing through your hands.
- True God can never justify the killing and murdering of his own creation. It was Muhammad and his Muslim warriors who killed them, not god. It was Muhammad who ordered the killings, not god. This teaching of the Koran is truly evil, not authored by god but Allah.
Allah says:- 33:27 he inherited you their land, their homes, their money, and lands you had never stepped on. God is able to do all things.
- After killing, Allah now declares that Muhammad can take the
defender's land, their homes, their money, and lands he never had
stepped upon. God is able to do all things. It's now your land,
your homes, your money. Take it all. Allah is not only a
mass-murderer of innocents, but also a looter, a robber. Allah’s
prototypic teaching is: ‘Attack and kill the infidels, enslave the
women and children and take possession of their property.’
How can acquiring earthly wealth and money through such immoral, barbaric and cruel means come into the equation of God's teaching?
The Koran says:- Allah has purchased from those who acknowledge their very lives and their wealth; that they will have paradise. They fight in the cause of god so they kill and are killed. A promise that is true upon him in the torah, the injeel and the quran. Whoever fulfills his pledge to god, then have good news of the deal which you concluded with. Such is the supreme success [9:111].
- Verse 9:111 is the most evil, depraved, immoral teaching in all of Islam. Allah takes away from Muslims all rights and ownership of their life. Muslims will engage Allah's stratagems of wars without any questions asked, and kill and get killed. This is the only mode of actions that will earn them Paradise. Allah is the peerless master of incitement of violence and bloodbath.
Verse 9:5, the notorious evil verse of the sword:- so when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, take them, surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, hold the contact prayer, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is forgiving, compassionate [9:5]
- God is the creator of the universe—the creator of all living beings. How can God give such opened-ended and unconditional order to Muslims to kill a section of people, whom he has created and nurtured? An all-perfect, all-knowing God will not create them in the first place, if he has to kill them in such barbaric manner. In 9:5, Allah orders violence and then micro-manage this violence telling Muhammad how to kill his prey. These instructions cannot be from true God, but Allah.
9:29, the infamous people-of-the-book verse:- fight those who do not acknowledge god nor the last day among the people who received the book; they do not forbid what god and his messenger have forbidden, and they do not uphold the system of truth; until they pay the reparation (Jiziyah), in humility [9:29].*
- Allah's orders Muslims to attack and kill the so-called 'people of the book’ (i.e. Jews and Christians)', until they are defeated and submitted to the supremacy of Islam and in willing humiliation, pay Jiziyah tax to Muslims. Such is the punishment Allah renders to people for following, in His own admission, scriptures, which He Himself had sent to them a few hundred years earlier. Extraction of Jiziyah from subjugated and humiliated dhimmi Jews and Christians is obviously designed for Muslims to enjoy a good life on the labour and sweat of the dhimmis. Such immoral and shameless is Allah.
Since the teaching of verse 9:29 is unethical, the Koran cannot be the word/teaching of god.
God’s incitement of war
God, the supreme creator will not like to see his won creation to engage in violence, war and bloodbath. A true God will never intervene or will not take any side in any battle, never lead an army into battle, or any other form of divine intervention etc. War extinguishes life that god creates with love. God can never murder his creatures nor can order anyone to kill any human being. A true god will be against sending calamity to destroy any human being. But the teachings of the Koran are ridden with instructions for killing, destruction and war. For example, the Quran says:
2:190 fight in the cause of god against those who fight you, but do not transgress, god does not like the aggressors.*
2:191 kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. Do not fight them at the restricted temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them. Thus is the reward of those who do not appreciate.
2:192 if they cease, then god is forgiving, compassionate.
2:193 fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is god’s. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked.*
2:194 the restricted month is for the restricted month. The restrictions are mutual. Whoever attacks you, then you shall attack him the same as he attacked you; and be conscientious of god, and know that god is with the righteous.
The almighty God can bring any disobedient human being to his path just by a simple wish. He need not instruct Muslims to unleash violence, bloodbath and war against non-Muslims. These verses of the Koran, urging Muslims to engage in killing, bloodbath and war, cannot come from a true god. The content of the Koran, therefore, cannot be the teachings of Allah.
God, the greatest military commander.
The Koran says:
47:4 so, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike the control center until you overcome them. Then bind them securely. You may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. That, and had god willed, he alone could have beaten them, but he thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of god, he will never let their deeds be put to waste.*
Here, the creator of the universe is instructing Muhammad and his Muslim army in the field of battle to ‘strike the control center (instead of neck) of the enemy until the latter are overcome’ and then to ‘bind them securely.’ The Koranic God, therefore, is acting as the commander-in-chief in the battlefield, for defeating the enemy and taking the latter captive, for ransoming them in order to generate revenue. What a fantastic plan from the creator of the universe. Napoleon is nothing compared to the military genius of the Koranic god as displayed in verse 47.4. Of course, if Muslims can become victorious or martyr by following those military commands of Allah, he will reward those Jihadists with hoards of celestial virgin in paradise as per Koran-9:111.
For the true god, the epitome of sanity and justice, to engage in such actions is nothing but madness.
Killing ordered by Allah
4:89 they hope that you would reject as they rejected, then you would be the same. Do not take any of them as allies until they emigrate in the cause of god. If they turn away, then take them and kill them where you find them; and do not take from them any ally or supporter;*
5:32 it is because of this that we have decreed for the children of Israel, anyone who kills a person who has not committed murder, or who has not Committed mischief in the land; then it is as if he has killed all the people! Whoever spares a life, then it is as if he has given life to all the people."
Here again, God orders killing of some of his creation by others. But the creator of the universe can only be merciful, not vengeful, to his own creation. A true god cannot order murder of any human beings for whatsoever reason. He would instead try to salvage every life he has created with love. He will try to guide, not order to kill, any person for whatsoever reason.
Therefore, the Koran cannot be the words of God.
Live by the sword, die by the sword
5:33 the recompense of those who fight god and his messenger and seek to corrupt the land, is that they will be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off on alternate sides or that they be banished from the land. That is a disgrace for them in this world. In the hereafter, they will have a great retribution;*
Verse 5:33 makes a farce of god’s name. Can one imagine a god killing and crucifying "those who fight god and his messenger and seek to corrupt the land?" In the first place, how can one fight the almighty creator, under whose control is everything on earth? If god simply wishes, everything in the universe falls in place. God need not order Muslims to kill another human beings, whom he has created with love.
There is nothing more nonsensical as ideas like this, which Prophet Muhammad, the purported messenger of Allah, used to cause great human tragedies, such as to murder, torture or banish those who oppose his rule.
Eye for eye doctrine of Allah
2:178 o you who acknowledge, equivalent execution has been decreed for you in the cases of killings: the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. Whoever is forgiven anything by his brother, then it is to be followed with good deeds and kindness towards him; that is alleviation from your lord, and a mercy. Whoever transgresses after that, he will have a painful retribution.
This eye-for-eye doctrine of revenge is a primitive, tribal way of dealing with social problems, not befitting even of modern civilized society. How could a true God make such rule which is to be a standard for all humanity for all time? The Koranic god is even worse than modern civilized human beings in his concept of justice.
Look again at the farcical sense of justice of Allah. If someone kills a slave of another man, the killer will not be punished. But instead, a slave belonging to the killer, who is otherwise completely innocent, would be killed. This shows not only the acceptance of the abhorrent institution of slavery by Allah, but also Allah’s cruel injustice to them. This is madness.
Verse 2:178 is not a teaching of a perfect god, and therefore, the Koran is not a book of god’s word/teaching.
Punishment for fornication
24:2 (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.*
Here Allah prescribes lashing, an uncivilized practice, of consenting fornicators in front of a jeering crowd. The desire for mating of two individuals in love is God’s own creation and he cannot punish any human being for giving in to a desire he has created himself. Furthermore, this ritual of lashing symbolizes barbarism, which can only be sanctioned by Allah, but not by a true God.
The unjust, heartless, uncivilized and barbaric teaching of Koran 24.2 cannot be authored by a true God. The Koran, therefore, is not the word/teaching of god.
The mass exile
59:2 he is the one who drove out those who rejected among the people of the book from their homes at the very first mass exile. You never thought that they would leave, and they thought that their fortresses would protect them from god. But then god came to them from where they did not expect, and he cast fear into their hearts. They destroyed their homes with their own hands and the hands of those who acknowledge. So take a lesson, o you who possess vision.*
59:3 had god not decreed to banish them, he would have punished them in this life. In the hereafter they will face the retribution of the fire.
59:4 this is because they challenged god and his messenger. Whosoever challenges God, then god is severe in punishment….
59:7 whatever god provided to his messenger from the people of the Townships, then it shall be to god and his messenger; for the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer. Thus, it will not remain monopolized by the rich among you. You may take what the messenger gives you, but do not take what he withholds you from taking. Be aware of god, for god is mighty in retribution.*
8:41 you should know: "of anything you gain, that one-fifth shall go to god and the messenger: to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the wayfarer." you will do this if you acknowledge and in what we revealed to our servant on the day of distinction, the day the two armies clashed. God is able to do all things.*
59:6 what god provided to his messenger, without you having to battle for it on horses or on foot, was because god sends his messengers against whomever he wills. God is capable of all things.
These verses encapsulate Allah’s order of evicting or exiling the Jewish community of Medina from their homes and properties. Thereafter, he instructs Muhammad to take possession of the assets and belonging of the exiled, thereby enriching the Muslim community; and of which, 20% goes to the coffer of Muhammad. This ideal only holds good for Hitler in relation to his final solution of the Jewish question. There came a Hitler some 14 centuries ago in Muhammad, for applying a similar final solution to the Jews of Medina. Muhammad and his Allah were Hitler’s protagonists.
This teaching can only be fitting of evil incarnates like Hitler,
not of a true god. This is crime against humanity. This is
completely unfitting of god.
Allah says, ‘Don't hate war, it may be good for you’
2:216. warfare has been decreed for you while you hate it; and perhaps you may hate something while it is good for you, and perhaps you may love something while it is bad for you; god knows while you do not know.
What a wonderful moral teaching of a wonderful moral god. These are the eternal words of the Islamic god. What a wisdom: ‘I, god, have decreed warfare for you, involving killing and destruction, pain and suffering, the carnage of battlefields covered in blood and littered with dead bodies…’ The madness of madness!
Muhammad's carnal desire for his adopted son's wife
33:37 you said to the one who was blessed by god, and blessed by you: "keep your wife and reverence god," and you hid inside yourself what god wished to proclaim. You feared the people, while it was god you were supposed to fear. So when zayd ended his relationship with his wife, we had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for those who acknowledge marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. God's command is always done.
Allah is so concerned and serious about having Muhammad and his adopted son’s wife (Zainab) get married, which was considered incestuous and immoral in the social ethics of the-then Arabs. If he had so eagerly planned a union between Muhammad and Zainab, how could he forget that a few weeks earlier, when Zayd was marrying Zainab? Why did not Allah reveal a verse to stop the marriage which was against what Allah has commanded?
It is clear that Muhammad had developed a carnal desire for his adopted son's wife and to fulfill it, he got this verse revealed by his fictional god, so that he can defy the social taboo and add Zainab to his burgeoning harem.
Zayd had called Muhammad ‘father’ for decades after he was adopted in about 695 CE. Three decades later, he renounced the long-established father-son relationship to naught, just for satisfying his carnal hunch for Zainab and Allah becomes an eagerly willing party in that. A noble and highly ethical pre-Islamic Arab tradition is degraded by Allah to satisfy the sexual fantasies of Muhammad. This not fitting of a true god.
A male chauvinist god
Muhammad’s wives: a soap-opera
33:50 "o prophet, we have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have already Given their dowry, and the one who is committed to you by oath, as granted to You by god... Also, the acknowledging woman who had decreed herself to the prophet, the Prophet may marry her if he wishes, as a privilege given only to you and not to Those who acknowledge. We have already decreed their rights in regard to Their spouses and those who are still dependants. This is to spare you any Hardship. God is forgiver, compassionate."
What a teaching of Allah. He first sanctioned up to four wives (4:3) to each Muslim men. Now Muhammad’s harem was full with four wives and he wanted to add more. So Allah quickly rushes to fulfill his endless sexual fantasy and reveal this verse (in bold), giving him alone additional privilege to populate his harem with endless number of wives.
The sex-obsessed Allah was always there to fulfill Muhammad’s fondest fantasies for unlimited sex.
Allah threatens to divorce Muhammad’s wives
When Muhammad once slept with Maria, the Egyptian slave, breaking the rule he had set, two of his wives (Hafsa and Aisha), who caught him, bandied together and refused to offer sex to him. So Allah comes with the following revelations to rescue Muhammad.
66:4 if the two of you repent to god, then your hearts have listened. But if you band together against him, then god is his master. Gabriel, the righteous of those who acknowledge, and the angels are his supporters.*
66:5 it may be that he would divorce you, then his lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; peacefully surrendering, acknowledging, devout, repentant, serving, active in their societies, responsive, and foremost ones.*
This is perversity of Allah to its extreme. The two wives had revolted against a breach by Muhammad. Instead of admonishing Muhammad, Allah admonishes the wives who should deserve praise for taking the brave and moral stand against the immoral behavior of Muhammad. Taking side of Muhammad, Allah threatens those two wives with divorce and seeks to replace them with younger, prettier and more submissive ones (for a near-death Muhammad).
What a moral bankruptcy is on display. There is no place for the feelings of the women of his harem. Allah has no concern for the sanctity of the concept of love between man and woman. He is only concerned about meeting his apostle’s carnal desires. What a male chauvinist this Allah truly is!
Such teachings of immorality are accepted by Muslims as the teachings of god. Insanity, Period!
Allah sanctioned pedophilia
Islam teaches sex with young female children as an eternal law of god.
Koran 65.4 allows Muslims marry (and divorce) little girls who have not yet reached menstruation age.
Koran 65:4: and those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'iddah (waiting period for divorce), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. They are still immature) their 'iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]. And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens) (give birth) and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to him, he will make his matter easy for him.
Koran 65.4 clearly states that Muslim men can divorce pre-pubescent girls—that is, they are allowed to marry pre-pubescent children (girls). To that end, Prophet Muhammad fulfilled this decree of Allah by marrying 6-year-old baby Aisha. A true god cannot promote such outrageous teachings of pedophilia to harm young innocent girls. The Koran, therefore, cannot be the teaching of god.
Conclusion
This is a sample of numerous immoral, evil, depraved teachings of the Koran, which clearly demonstrate that its teachings are far from morally perfect.
The Koran, therefore, is not the word/teaching of god. Period!
Islam is a sham, a fraud.
Islam is a total and complete rejection of the ideal of god. The Koran is an evil book, created in the name of god. Islam is blasphemy and a sacrilege against god himself.
Islam is a fraudulent, diabolical and evil ideology. The acts of those Muslims, whole-heartedly inspired and acted upon by its teachings such as those of radical Islamists around the world, prove it all.
Reforming Islam: A Tough Call
There are some moderate Muslims trying to reform Islam, although there are should not be anything reformable in the final and perfected religion of Allah. Many believe that Islam cannot be reformed at all.
The reformists, however, must undertake not a phony but a tough-love approach towards reforming Islam eradicating all the unethical and dangerous teachings that pollute the Koran. There can be no choice here.
The first step in reforming Islam is the declaration that the Koran is not the eternal word/teaching of god and that it is not valid for all times and places. It must be declared that a good part of the Koran is unacceptable to the civilized society, which must be expunged from it. Following are a few issues; the reformists must meticulously work on:
1. Renouncing, denouncing and removing from the Koran the close to 1000 fascist teachings of violence, terror, war, death and destruction.
2. Renouncing, denouncing and removing from the Koran all teachings of the oppression, subjugation and repression of women.
3. The total and complete equality of women in a democratic society without equivocation is absolutely essential to the reform of Islam. Nothing less is acceptable.
4. Renouncing, denouncing and removing from the Koran all teachings of raping infidel slaves.
5. Renouncing, denouncing and removing from the Koran all references to slavery. Slavery is the most vile, evil institutions ever invented by man.
6. Renouncing, denouncing and removing from the Koran all teachings of looting and pillaging and sharing the profit received from selling looted property and slaves with god.
7. Renouncing, denouncing and removing from the Koran all teachings of hate and racism.
8. Renouncing, denouncing and removing from the Koran all teachings of murdering apostates of Islam, allowing complete right for Muslims to leave Islam.
9. Renouncing, denouncing and removing from the Koran all teachings of polygamy.
10. The complete eradication of the sexually depraved Islamic paradise of virgins who are to service the men of Allah for all eternity. This evil paradise for murderers is an outrageous affront and sin against god. It turns god into a pimp, making a mockery of everything god stands for. Over 1400 years, upwards of 270,000,000 people have been murdered by Muslims in their desire to land in obscene orgasmic Islamic paradise (9:111).
11. Total eradication of sharia law and its replacement by separation of religion and state, democracy and freedom and the rule of law.
Without addressing these points rigorously, there cannot be any meaningful reformation of Islam. Anything less will be nothing but putting a happy face on a dangerous evil, essentially changing nothing.
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Name: Quran on Jews and Christians
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 02:41:53 -0700
Comment
*Quran on Jews: Quran is the only non-Jewish scripture in the world where Jews have been honored and protected in so many verses [2:40; 2:47; 2:122; 3:113-115; 10:93; 20:47; 20:80; 44:30-32; 45:16; etc.], and they have also been offered salvation if they follow their own scriptures [2:62; 5:69; 5:65-66; 22:17; etc.]. *Quran on Christians: Quran is the only non-Christian scripture in the world where Jesus Christ and Mary have been honored with very high regard [3:42 and Chapter 19 on Mary], good Christians have been praised [5:65-66; 5:82] and they have also been offered salvation if they follow their own scriptures [2:62; 5:69; 5:65-66; 22:17; etc.]. #Verse 5:51 and 3:28 address to terrorist/intolerant Jews and Christians, not ALL. See 5:57-59 and 60:7-9 for clarification.
Name: Does Islam need to be reformed or do YOU?
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 02:51:45 -0700
Comment
http://muslim-responses.com/Does_Islam_need_Reform/Does_Islam_need_Reform_
Name: The Quran will never be changed
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 02:52:45 -0700
Comment
http://muslim-responses.com/The_Quran_will_never_be_changed/The_Quran_will_never_be_changed_
Name: agnostic
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 03:14:27 -0700
Comment
Edip, to say "Your so-called "western civilization" just killed more than one million Iraqis, maimed millions, turned millions to orphans, widows and refugees, in war that was initiated based on a series of lies and deception. " Saddam's WMD was found. Ample proof. Both Iraq and Afghanistan have been and are being poisoned with Depleted Uranium. In less than a decade there will be no Iraqi or Afghani. Same will happen to you muslim mass murderers in a short while. ---"imperialist monster "you speak of is already underway. The Vatican backed by Germany returns to Imperalism. Why do you think muslims are allowed in huge numbers into Europe? So it's easy to herd you filthy scumbags into concentration camps for swift execution. Get it? Go do some research .
Name: The Bible version of Fitna
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 05:19:44 -0700
Comment
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?s=dd64de59518d6fbecabab762b636492b&t=31339
Name: Ibn Kammuna
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 06:46:02 -0700
Comment
Great Article. Qur'an only muslims should see that Islam can't be reformed. This article is but a partial evidence for that, and what a convincing evidence that is. Muslim's who left comments here are not using their brains yet. They have joined Mr. Yuksel talking politics nonsense instead of tackling the true issues about Islam. Islam is no more than a piece of trash that humans should dispose of as soon as possible. It is no more than pure evil raised to the nth power. Peace
Name: This is for clot lady
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 06:58:45 -0700
Comment
I guess your clitoris has been smashed ‘somehow’ and it’s been bleeding! Now, you can see blood clot each and every time when you look at your clitoris! See a doctor, ok?
Name: antimod
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 07:38:45 -0700
Comment
Islam was mwant for desert barbarians. Neither Allah dictatedit nor did he send his angel(if at all he existed)to brief Mohammed. Quran is a great concoction. Besides,Mr Yuksie, you talk about Iraq because you are to witness it. Go back a thousand years and lsiten to the wailing of millions of hindus who were massacred by muslim invaders. Come down a couple of centuries and find out how Khilji destroyed millions and converted many, tried to destroy hinduism ( he could not). Come down and be witness to Aurangzeb and listen to his men who wrote of all he did to temples and how he killed hindus,and used freely your Taqiyya to deceive Guru Gobindsingh and killed his innocent sons. All done in the name of Allah and Islam. Why do you whine if your muslim brothers are killed, stop calling others kafirs. Islam is not the last word. Time is running out for you. You still have time to atone for all that was done by your ancestors and for your stupid ideology justifying all that is said in your book. You and your islamic umma is to be blamed for the current senario.
Name: balam to larry Houle
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 07:49:07 -0700
Comment
I do not think any body could do better than that in exposing the true face of Islam.May the true God bless you and keep you safe.
Name: Another apostate
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 07:57:37 -0700
Comment
Please dont be too tough on Edip. He represents the majority of moderate muslims who are aware that there is something wrong with their religion, with their holy book, but unable to get out of their 'comfort' zone because they simply have no idea that there are better alternatives to being a muslim.
Name: Happy Face Deconstructed
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 08:15:42 -0700
Comment
Mr. Houle either never read Yuksel's Reformist Translation or his specific problems with that translation were edited out. There is verse-by-verse comparison of the Reformist Translation with traditional translations by Lewis Palme, titled "Islamic Reform? When Camels Fly!," at http://www.annaqed.com/en/content/show.aspx?pod=1&aid=15887 There readers will see that instead of "beating" ones wife in Surah 4:34, one should just "beat it" or separate from the wife. That will keep her with a happy face.
Name: pmk
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 08:32:52 -0700
Comment
Once Mr. Houle's suggestions have been taken and the Koran's many violent, sadistic or puerile verses have been removed, what will be left? Maybe: there is no compulsion in religion.
Name: Allat
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 08:39:03 -0700
Comment
Great article! Exactly!___This Edip has his unmitigated GALL (!) to mention "millions killed in Iraq " when his own countru Turkey slaughtered millions of Armenians, Assyrians, and others, in the territories Turks controlled, in the Early 1900s. And before that, the Turks slaughtered millions of Greeks, Albanians and others in Eastern Eur. that fought to stop islam from spreading. I do sanction defending ourselves "Mano a Mano.________ The problem, OUR problem is that the governments of the West, have enabled the spread of this poison islam to take root in our countries, without thought of the consequences to the common people. After all, the wealthy in Parliment, The Hague, the U.S. COngress, will never have to suffer and put up with the islamic, the way we will. While the islamics have the call to prayer in the cities,in the wee hours, the Western enablers, will be in their mansions, miles away in the countryside. While we - in rush hours will have to suffer the little prayer rugs in the middle of the streets, the Enablers will be far away, cruising in their limousines. And so it will go. The Enablers will be easily subsumed into the anti-human cult, able to wheel and deal with our enemy - living the life that the sheiks of araby and their women live, as I write, in well...Araby. These do go to the Alps to ski, they do go to Paris, to Grand Hotels, and enjoy the Follie Bergeres, Highballs. We won't. The Enablers have shown that they just don't give a rat's ass about us. __________SO it is we, that are now responsible, and take the "Bull by the horns." A dangerous thing. But I saw, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. This nonsense has gone far enough._____I refuse to think that Europe will be islamized, otherwise, we might as well, give up and accept slavery. it is never too late to stop it. _______Now we have to put the brakes on____Fight with all our mights against our our Governments!_____
Name: pmk
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 09:01:53 -0700
Comment
"Over 1400 years, upwards of 270,000,000 people have been murdered by Muslims in their desire to land in obscene orgasmic Islamic paradise (9:111)." So that begs the question: why did god saddle the world with Muhammed in the first place? What was just and loving in god's permitting ancient Christian and Jewish societies to be demolished? Was Muhammed in all his depravity part of The Plan? Two hundred seventy MILLION people killed because they obeyed the word of god as revealed to them by Jesus and the prophets? God has a wicked (no pun intended) sense of humor.
Name: Re: This is for clot lady
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 09:58:31 -0700
Comment
"I guess your clitoris has been smashed ‘somehow’ and it’s been bleeding! Now, you can see blood clot each and every time when you look at your clitoris! See a doctor, ok?" Is there anything to debate any more? Here you can see how islamists think about women.
Name: ZuK
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 13:02:24 -0700
Comment
Grat article. Mr.Yuksel just misses the subtle difference between a. the nature of war, which is essentially economical and political, and is about power and control, always, b. teachings that might ideally oppose war (Christianty) but end up allowing it, or somehow condoning it, and c. techings like Islam that very realistically PROMOTE war and discrimination, and only ocassionally, after much spin doctoring, can be found to somehow limit this craze in cruelty and extent. So, comparing Western colonialism and Islamic expansionism, whereas is actually an excersice in comparing to evils, is, nonetheless, a sophistic one. // As for the rest, I fully underwrit Allat's comment. Is good to have a godess on board ;)
Name: Walter Sieruk
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 13:13:43 -0700
Comment
The idea of attempts at reforming the Quran is not a thing that is possible because if for not any other reason,in the Bible it is written "That which is crooked cannot be made straight:and that which is wanting cannot be numbered." Ecclesiates 1:15. {KJV]
Name: agnostic
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 15:16:38 -0700
Comment
Instead of asking Larry Houle to read this or that, or inviting any non muslim to read anything "reformasi" about islam, EDIP should enlighten us why the filthy book called quran he defends so much has more than 100 verses of HATRED, VIOLENCE AND CALLING FOR THE WORLD TO BE TURNED INTO DAR UL ISLAM. Otherwise, he has no validity, no credibility, no right to ask any non muslim to heed his request. We are well informed of Ottoman's history. THERE ARE NO MUSLIM MODERATES.
Name: Edip Yuksel
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 15:46:37 -0700
Comment
Dear Larry: Since you posted this article, which I believe contain numerous distortion and lack of knowledge on the subject matter, I will allocate some time to respond it. Peace, Edip
Name: Mohammad to agnostic
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 16:28:49 -0700
Comment
I think you need to take a break. You are just exhausting yourself by your hate against Muslims. There is not much you can do to change things except cursing. Isn't that childish? Now that Edib and Larry have started a somewhat respectful conversation, we better listen closely.
Name: ZuK
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 18:19:22 -0700
Comment
Mr. Yusel: did you, Turkish people and government, ever have the "decency" (a word you seem very fond of) to ADMIT (I won't even say appologize or -God forbid- make restitution or compensation) to the Armenian Genocide? Would you admit that the USE of that word is BANNED from official speech in Turkey? You see, there are evils that are intrinsical to Islam, take any flavor you want, low calories or no-trans-fat. THOSE are the evils people that post here would like to see dismanteled. An, as there was no need to unleash an Holocaust on German people in order to stop the Nazi machinery, in fact, it wasn't even necessary to kill or imprision every German that has ever been a Nazi - it was enough to make it a political impossibility - so we hope here that with energical political, diplomatical and EDUCATIONAL action (which implies unmaskings fakes like you) the civilized world (among which certainly would be most of the peoples presently under the boot of Islamofascist rule) will turn Islam into a political impossibility, a relic of times gone.
Name: ar rahaman
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 22:17:47 -0700
Comment
thanks a lot. i got my eyes opened.Prevously i was brain wahed. now i ahve known the truth
Name: Islam and Science and Education
Date: Sunday April 13, 2008
Time: 01:30:14 -0700
Comment
Quotes from the UN Arab world development report: "Arab countries have some of the lowest levels of research funding in the world. R&D [research and development] expenditure as a percentage of GDP was a mere 0.4 for the Arab world in 1996, compared to 1.26 in 1995 for Cuba, 2.35 in 1994 for Israel, and 2.9 for Japan." "The figures for translated books are discouraging. The Arab world translates about 330 books annually, one fifth of the number that Greece translates." "However, illiteracy rates in the Arab world are still higher than the international average and are even higher than the average in developing countries." "Out of seven world regions, the Arab countries had the lowest freedom score in the late 1990s [in the rankings of Freedom House]." "Women also suffer from unequal citizenship and legal entitlements, often evident in voting rights and legal codes. The utilization of Arab women's capabilities through political and economic participation remains the lowest in the world in quantitative terms, as evidenced by the very low share of women in parliaments, cabinets, and the work force and in the trend towards the feminization of unemployment."
Name: agnostic to mohammad
Date: Sunday April 13, 2008
Time: 02:36:51 -0700
Comment
You take care of your blood pressure. I'm quite capable of taking care of myself and my family. Justified hate against cruelty is very healthy. Civilisations are not conquered, they commit suicide. Edmund Burke said that for evil to win all it needs is for good men to do nothing. I'd add : Evil does not merely win when good men do nothing. It wins when the supposed good men do their utmost to fight fiercely on evil's behalf. This is what we are facing today with multi culti, political correctness, leftist moonbats, liberal whackys, et al. We are in the nuclear age. We do not have the luxury of time. If you want to dialogue, then do so. Otherwise, buzz off.
Name: agnostic
Date: Sunday April 13, 2008
Time: 02:48:08 -0700
Comment
Perhaps Edip can elaborate on his islamists behalf the foll:.......In 1999, the Vatican hosted a conference of Muslim and Christian leaders, attended by the Titular Archbishop of Smyrna. He reports that a Muslim participant was disarmingly frank about the purpose of Islamic settlers in pluralistic Western societies. Addressing the Christian delegates from Europe, he allegedly said: "Because of our religion, we will invade you; because of your democracy, we will destroy you."
Name: Islam is not the solution - it is repression
Date: Sunday April 13, 2008
Time: 09:04:01 -0700
Comment
Muslim countries are suffering from so many problems such as world leading unemployment, illiteracy, no schools, no teachers, corruption, no democracy and many more. But if you take a look at their massmedia, you find nothing but all this islam-thing. More mosques, more prayers, more headscarves, more gender segregation and all this bigotism-s**t! I think that many muslims already know that their religion is wrong, their whole society, even their whole historical heritage! But since this is too much for most people, they take this repression strategy called Islamism. Close your eyes and move forward. And always blame the west! In a few years we will see a desaster never seen before.
Name: Islam is not the solution - it is repression II
Date: Sunday April 13, 2008
Time: 09:05:09 -0700
Comment
Fastest growing religion of the world??? Do these guys know what it takes to educate them and to provide jobs and housing for them? Islam does not provide anything at all from this. Many governments in the muslim world do not provide education, do not create jobs, instead they blame the west and pretend to be islamic. They subsidize the bread prices, but what is this good for since all the people will never have a future? Algeria, Egypt, many arab countries cannot produce enough food, however, they are subsidizing food imported from the west. Only a few years from now, many countries will ruan out of oil, then out of water. Then all this bigot muslims will realize that you cannot eat or drink islam.
Name: Mohammad to agnostic
Date: Sunday April 13, 2008
Time: 12:53:41 -0700
Comment
Your reason is taken over by fear. You fear that Muslims invade the west. This is as valid a fear it is as a 3 year-old fearing a monster under his bed will come and eat him. All of this coming from a person who is most probably a WASP whose people did conquer many parts of the world, killed and enslaved other nations (such as native americans and african blacks) and did nuke innocent people (the only people to do so). So you fear that other people are as violent as your people? What makes you think that North American belongs to the white race and the Christian faith? Why is it a disaster for humanity if North America becomes a Muslim or a Mexican nation? Maybe god has a different plan than what you have in mind, what's the big deal? USA, the most christian country in the world after Vatican, is the same country that has invaded many countries and has influenced the politics within these countries by manipulation, terror, and supporting dictators. Maybe god is just tired of all your nonsense and hypocrisy and wants to change things. So sit tight! You are not here for a conversation. You are here to insult and share your fear with the rest of your folks.
Name: Ananda
Date: Sunday April 13, 2008
Time: 14:33:38 -0700
Comment
Mohammad, you are so right, Muslims are very civilized and they always want a polite dialogue with infidels. The Muslims are very polite and kind, but the whole world thinks they are savage bastards. Mohammad, as part of a polite dialogue, Is it true that unveiled women cause men to be "transformed into beasts"? Mashad, 10 April (AKI) - A top Shia cleric in Iran has said that unveiled women are a serious danger to Iranian society as they cause men to be "transformed into beasts". "Women without the veil are a danger that the authorities underestimate," said Hojatolislam Seyyed Ahmad Elmalhoda, a powerful cleric who leads the Friday prayers in Mashad, a site considered sacred for Shia Muslims as it houses the shrine of Imam Reza.
Name: ZuK
Date: Sunday April 13, 2008
Time: 19:23:02 -0700
Comment
Mohammed, you seem to lose the point: the evils of American society that you mention (and that are real) are social evils that happen IN SPITE and AGAINST the foundational principles of that society, but, be as it may, the spreading of education and the (imperfect but important) mechanisms of democracy create a silent educated majority that may have the tools to correct these evils. That's America's challenge. From the other side, the social evil that Islam represents STEM from its foundational propositions, and the lack of a real education, and any sort of real political and intelectual dinamism, only ensure that these evils will self-perpetuate. Endorsing America or the Western values against the barbarism of Islam is not endorsing any countrie's past - is simply endorsing the only societies and social and political values and practices that can create a window of opportunity to overcome the monkey-like primitivism of our biologically young race, as opposed to its exaltation by quranic Islam. Now you GET it, sadiqii?
Name: Mohammad to ZuK
Date: Sunday April 13, 2008
Time: 21:43:35 -0700
Comment
I have no problem with borrowing from western philosophies and way of thinking. Muslims have already adopted many western values and institutions which now belong to humanity as a whole and are practiced everywhere on earth. Despite being very different people from very different backgrounds, still we share many of the same problems such as diseases, energy crisis, ethnic tensions, minority rights, women rights, the interference of religion in the state's affairs, etc. So America can be a model which we can follow but not all the time. America is not perfect and my argument is that this is one of the times that America is not perfect. This hate and intolerance that is being produced against Muslims and their faith is a mistake and history will testify to it (when it is too late). In the long run, refusing to acknowledge the concerns of the other side will hurt us all. Assuming that the western way of life is superior to the Muslim way of life, still you can't impose the western way of life on Muslims because along the way you will turn to the opposite of what you are preaching. You preach peace and harmony and you will create chaos and 'Fitna'. You preach democracy and you will create and support dictatorships. You preach human rights and tolerance and you will support Israel. So the solution is not in the hands of hate-filled agenda-driven right-wing political groups. The solution is to stick to the core of western democracy and philosophy which is tolerance.
Name: vbv
Date: Monday April 14, 2008
Time: 01:07:59 -0700
Comment
The article tries to bring in the so-called reform in islam by modifying or eliminating hateful lines in 'quran'. Well, the whole of quran is based on hatred and discrimination against non-believers- it would fail miserably as nothing will be left in quran if hate-filled verses and the bullshit dished out by Muhammad were to be expunged or altered.What is the motive for the muslims to vehemently oppose reforms and staunchly support the quran and the hadiths? Simple, these are scriptures sanctioned by Muhammad and his fictional Allah to plunder,loot,murder ,rape ,torture ,etc with impunity ,all in the name of Allah and his Muhammad. Infact it is a licence to indulge in all criminal,barbaric, savage and vulgar activities and be not questioned since it is sanctioned in the scriptures and Muhammad is himself a prime example exemplifying the the word of the fake god Allah as the 'best' creation of that fake Allah!. It is worse than a mafia's crime manual, as it takes the cover of "religion". The best way to overcome all this is to bannish all the socalled religions and cults and promote secular and modern values of tolerance,democracy,knowledge,science ,technology and economic progress. First bannish quran and outlaw it everywhere.Then go about bannishing all other 'religious texts' -- all of them are works of carlatans,scoundrels,thugs who exploit human weakness and insecurities to enjoy unrestricted power and pelf!
Name: Good Muslims are dead Muslims
Date: Monday April 14, 2008
Time: 01:31:33 -0700
Comment
Good Muslims are dead Muslims. Period. End.
Name: Yusuf Estes Explains 'Beauty of Islam'
Date: Monday April 14, 2008
Time: 04:54:48 -0700
Comment
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=108888&d=13&m=4&y=2008
Name: ZuK (to Mohammed)
Date: Monday April 14, 2008
Time: 05:46:08 -0700
Comment
Well, here we go - among other points worth discussing in you post, the central one is that ISLAM is trying to impose itself on the West! USA and other countries, essentially, don't give a damn about what religion is practised in Saudi Arabia or Afganistan, but it is the Saudi fundamentalists (i.e.: true Muslims) training their paid idiots in Afganistan and Pakistan that declare that Islam shall prevail on the Earth, by persuassion or violece. Again, Hammed habibii, I feel you're barking at the wrong tree. It is the DECLARED INTENT of Islam to take over the world, and the Muslim's attitudes and actions testify about that.
Name: re: agnostic
Date: Monday April 14, 2008
Time: 22:54:15 -0700
Comment
Edip, to say "Your so-called "western civilization" just killed more than one million Iraqis, maimed millions, turned millions to orphans, widows and refugees, in war that was initiated based on a series of lies and deception. " Saddam's WMD was found. Ample proof. Both Iraq and Afghanistan have been and are being poisoned with Depleted Uranium. In less than a decade there will be no Iraqi or Afghani. Same will happen to you muslim mass murderers in a short while. ---"imperialist monster "you speak of is already underway. The Vatican backed by Germany returns to Imperalism. Why do you think muslims are allowed in huge numbers into Europe? So it's easy to herd you filthy scumbags into concentration camps for swift execution. Get it? Go do some research . US never found WMD.pls check again. Confirm by UN. No WMD! you better get your source right and my advice when doing reaserch try not to stick to one source and try tou think further. Hehehe. Europe will be full of Islam but England will be England, France will be France nothing going to change that. Salam :)
Name: J.K.
Date: Tuesday April 15, 2008
Time: 10:42:24 -0700
Comment
Mr. Edip a turk , perpetrators of Armeninan genocide has the nerve to criticize others. Most death and destruction in Iraq came from muslims killing muslims and suicide bombings. If Alqueda had not started a jihad in Iraq, the war would have ended in few months like the first Gulf war and Iraqis would be enjoying prosperity like Kuwaitis are.
Name: Hisham to Edip/Akhter
Date: Tuesday April 15, 2008
Time: 11:02:37 -0700
Comment
You Quran only muslims believe that Jibraeel came and dictated Mohammed the self serving ayas to kill and rape and rob infidels without a single witness but do not believe the history witnessed by thousands and chronicled by many pious scholars written in hadiths and siras. You guys are worse than wahabbis who believe both.
Name: New Infidel
Date: Tuesday April 15, 2008
Time: 11:03:14 -0700
Comment
Great Article.
Name: God bless you!
Date: Wednesday April 16, 2008
Time: 07:49:57 -0700
Comment
Muslims need to feel the bottom to find the light. Only then they will realize the truth and preach peace.