A Western Woman's Romance in Islamic Egypt Gone Awry
30 Dec, 2008
- Dear readers,
Below is a tragic story of an Western woman's dream of a romantic life with an Egyptian man gone terribly wrong. I am asking for useful feedbacks for Ms Amalia from those, preferably from Egypt, who are familiar with the legal implications with her case.
I am writing to you in search of help and advice. I am Christian
and married a Muslim in Egypt. Basically I come to find out that he
was only using me for my citizenship and money. He threatened to
divorce me when his paperwork was getting on too slow and I decided
not to finish it and filed for divorce. It has been 5 years since
and nothing has been done. He refused to sign the papers and wants
me to come back to Egypt to do the divorce. I refused because I do
know now that if I do, knowing my husband, I will never leave unless
I do whatever he says.
- In the beginning he was very charming and did not tell me
everything about Islam. After we got married he tried to force me
to convert and stated that if we have kids, they must become
Muslims [although prior to marriage he agreed that they would make
their own choice]. He wanted me to put my mother in a nursing home
because I'm a different person [sensually] when she's around and
he wanted me to become more sexual and at ease.
I contacted a lawyer in Egypt and they are 'willing' to file for
a divorce [I forgot the Islamic term] however, I must pay my husband
back a dowry of 100 pounds. In the beginning I questioned my husband
regarding this because I heard that the Muslim man is supposed to
provide this, however, because he had no money he told me not to
worry about that and also it does now apply to non-muslims such as
myself. I contacted my husband through email as this is the only way
I can reach him [when he feels like answering] and told him this. He
claims he will not ask for the dowry back but I do not trust him- I
lost that trust after he so nonchalantly threatened me with divorce
5 years ago; so I'm asking for advice and any help you can offer to
me.
I wish I had come up across your site before I got involved with
my husband but we all make mistakes.. the only thing I can do now is
try to learn from them, mend the pieces and move on.
Thank you
Amalia
-------------------------
When I wrote to her seeking permission to post it on our Website, Amalia replied:
Please do post my letter. If anything, it will at least alert others who have some shadow of doubt. Matters of the heart are complicated but it does make sense to investigate (on your own) about different cultures and religion you are getting yourself into. I neglected to do that because I believed what the person was telling me and now I am suffering. They use your ignorance against you. Even as I speak, there are ignorant western women getting married outside of their religion (or have no religion) to these men. It is a shame.
Thank you for hearing me out and keep up the good work with your site.
I often feel guilty when I have to give negative feedbacks when
people, mostly women, write to me for advice on similar cases.
Although many an advice-seekers ignore, even probably get annoyed
by, my cynical comments, quite a few infidel Western women have made
the hard choice upon getting my feedback. I often wonder whether I
have been spoiling some possibly happy unions of loving souls. But
cases like this gives me confidence that I am, most likely, saving a
few lives from similar devastating experiences.
Below is a similar case: another Western woman got romantically entangled in a likely elusive romance in CAIRO. My response follows her letter; she, it seemed, didn't quite like my feedback.
-- MA Khan
Marianne wrote:
Subject: Confused
Hello.
I am a western woman of 52, but look much younger. Recently I was in Egypt and was courted by a 35 year old, very attractive, well educated Muslim man (He had never been to Europe).
That is we went out one night, after he told me that he had seen me and had fallen in love with me then and there.
He was unmarried, and the way he talked it seemed like he wanted a serious relationship with me. (He could not believe I was 52).
He also said he wanted me to "just give me one son".....
Of course I thought that this was the typical "Muslim man wanting
sex with western woman thing".
But during the evening we were out, in outdoor cafes smoking
shisha nad drinking coffee/tchai, He would not even kiss me. He held
my hand and told me how he adored me and also said that he wanted my
heart and that he could get sex anywhere.
It was a very intense and lovely evening, but of course I thought of the age difference and also that I was leaving after 2 days.
He also wanted to meet me the next night, but I thought it better
no to and told him I had to cancel.
I am writing you, because for me this was a very strange and
unexpected experience.
Do you think he meant what he said, or was it just a technique to
get what he wanted in the end?
I am confused and bewildered and understand that our cultures are very different.
Westly clothes do not necessarily imply Westly thinking and
tradition.
Best regards.
---------------------
MA Khan's reply:
Dear Marianne,
This website is run by former Muslims. Our central aim is to tell
Muslims that Islam is a false creation (indeed, all religions are)
of Muhammad, expose its barbaric nature, so that they can make
informed choice and leave it to join humanity. Therefore, our
response to your query might be biased; you should take this factor
into consideration before making your choice.
Undoubtedly, you are old enough to understand that someone cannot
be in deep love with you just like that. Being a man and a Muslim
for 35 years before leaving it, let me say a few words about your
case.
Attraction to a good-looking stranger woman is nearly universal
amongst young men, most often for sleeping with her; it is probably
in the natural constitution of man.
Second, Asian men, especially the Middle Eastern Muslims
(probably because they consider women absolute property of men),
have intense infatuation for white women. They want to be in the
company of white women, to have whiter children---it's a matter of
pride issue. Until 1830s, Muslims enslaved millions of white women
through barbaric raids into Europe or through their proxy-partners,
the Vikings, and brought them into harems of the Muslim world. It
was the most desired and priciest commodity in the Islamic world
during those days.
Third, most Muslims want to immigrate to the west at any cost for
the money and good life it offers. Marriage to a western woman is
the surest passport to realize that dream.
It has to be one of these reasons that he said those things to you: I suspect, probably for the third or the mix of the second and third. There is nothing wrong is desiring to have a good life the west offers.
But Western women getting into a tango like this must be
cautious. Marriage is a big decision in life. Marrying a Muslim
brings a big sack with it: helping him immigrate, get his
citizenship, and most importantly, convert to Islam and obey your
husband and stuffs like these.
I personally feel that non-Muslim women should consider marrying a Muslim, only if he would leave Islam and embrace your outlook on life. If not, your children will undoubtedly be Muslim; if you have a daughter with him, it will be life of hell for her.
In your case, take into account that he just want a child with
you; if you can't (52 is a tough age), there may not be anymore
love...
Following are two articles I wrote to queries like yours. You may
read them to understand what it entails to marry a Muslim:
Should I, a Hindu, Convert to Islam and Marry My Muslim Lover?
Can't have a relationship with this Muslim man, thanks to Islam-watch
Most non-Muslims understand very little of Islam. I suggest that
you make an well-informed choice, if you are keen to marry the guy
and convert to Islam. Following two well-researched papers is the
least necessity for you (all women) before making your choice about
this encounter:
I am aware that my response would be negative. Islam has
destroyed too many lives since its birth. The worse will most likely
come in a few decades.
I am sorry again that I could not be more supportive of your
case.
Wish you the best.
She never wrote back to me. I thought she didn't like my
feedback.
Sorry, I was wrong. Marianne has eventually replied; here's her message:
Hello Mr. Khan.
Thank you for the letters.
It was interesting to read them and it did shed light on my own situation.
I have no contact with the person anymore.
Best regards,
Marianne
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Name: vbv
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 05:16:37 -0500
Comment
Mr. Khan you are doing a woman service by trying to save unfortunate women fallen in the clutches of unscrupulous muslim men. But most do not learn their lessons unless they fall into this trap. However ,keep up the good work!
Name: al-pig-ham-dull-ill-aaahhh
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 07:36:41 -0500
Comment
tussi great ho-ji. u r helping woman save her life u r the true prophet.
Folks, please make comments that could be of use to Amalia. - MA Khan
Name: Not all Egyptian men...
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 09:01:27 -0500
Comment
are like Omar Shariff. Don't marry a Muslim man in the first place. My condolences are with you. Keep up the good work Dr. Khan
Name: tan leng
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 09:11:24 -0500
Comment
I am married to a muslim woman from Indonesia. Their family are very pious Muslim, however I managed to convert her to be an athiest like me.
Name: Ibrahim Lone to Amalia
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 10:45:52 -0500
Comment
My heartfelt sympathies are with you Amalia for the bad experience you had with this Muslim. However you should consider yourself lucky that you've got yourself out of this marriage. There are so many western women who are deceived by Muslim men into believing that they really love them. Once they are married, things are pretty much over for you as an individual. You are nothing more than a baby making machine for them or at best a way to getting to Europe. Now I have one very important thing to tell you. None of the 57 Islamic countries are signatories to the Geneva conventions. Heavens forbid should you decide to go back to Egypt and this man happens to claim you as his wife, there is no way in hell that you are going back to Europe and there is no way your country will be able to help you either. It is best that you go approach the Egyptian consulate through the Danish Foreign ministry (Don't try to deal directly with them) and let them know of your problems. Start a new life and find some who really loves for who you are, and yes don't marry a Muslim, no matter how hard he tries to convince you that he loves you. In the meantime I will ask a few of my Egyptians friends as to what ca be done and I will get back to you through MA Khan. Now that you have realized what it means to marry a Muslim, it is your duty to let the other Western women know of your bad luck and your suffering at the hands of this man. Who knows you might be able to save many lives. Besides there are many websites that are dedicated specifically to the purpose of helping Western women who have been caught up in a bad marriage with a Muslim. All the best to you for your future.
Name: Ibn Kammuna>>>Amalia
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 10:45:54 -0500
Comment
You may have to do nothing where you live.. After a number of years of living separately, its as good as divorce.
Name: DH
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 10:51:38 -0500
Comment
Western societies need to be protected from predatory Muslim males who travel to them to prey on gullible western women whose thinking, when it comes to men, takes place several feet below their brains and time and time again expose the notion of "female intuition" as an unfounded myth. We should base our treatment of Muslim men who pursue these doolally bints on traditional Islamic treatment of non-Muslims who "get off" with Muslim women.
Name: allat
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 14:17:34 -0500
Comment
I've good advise for you! Count your blessings that you got out while the going was good!---And another thing, that you did not have any children with the scum--otherwise, you'd NEVER see them again..FOrget about any divorce (if it's even valid outside Egypt)- in fact, the lawyer, may know you haven't much of a chance to get one, and simply is taking your money.--Cut the cord, and your losses!
Name: no sympathy to muslims nor to west whores!!!
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 16:48:45 -0500
Comment
i have no sympathy nor to muslims(bcz islam is false)nor to liberal woman that want to be fucked every day! what the world need is stop of allegedly free relation between genders and impose of a strict laws about this relations maybe i can point to christianity in pure shape i hope one day it grow and every man marry to only one woman and another shit aspects of sexual relation(homosexuality lesbian gay girl friend boy friend) will be vanished soon
Name: Maryam
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 16:50:54 -0500
Comment
The first thing Ms. Amalia has to look at is whether their marriage was actually valid or not. An Islamic or Orfi Marriage is not valid outside of Egypt and are not generally registered. However, she should be advised that if it was an Orfi marriage and he did not tear up the papers, it is possible for him to have the marriage registered and legalized entitling him to certain properties/items. If she married at the MOJ (the only valid way to marry in Egypt for Muslim/Non-Muslim/ Foreigner) then she needs to consult with an American attorney who is well-informed on Islamic and Egyptian Law. I would not suggest she go back to Egypt under any circumstances to settle these matters and that she try to settle all matters in the US.
Name: Walter Sieruk
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 16:59:43 -0500
Comment
"As long as men read and believe the Quran women will be despised,second class citizens."[From the book THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT GUIDE TO ISLAM p.77 by Robert Spencer
Name: a suggestion to ma khan
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 17:07:40 -0500
Comment
hi ma khan editor of this good site.now we have attacks of israel to ghaza strip.in my country(a hardcore islamic one) in tv every day they say israel i a criminal against humanity and israel is a aggressive wolf and etc.and worst of all they say this land belong to palestinians (arab muslims) and israel has usurped those land, neglecting that in some centuries ago muhammad (piss be upon him) killed and usurped jews tribes (banu ghorizeie, and another tribes) and raped their womens (safieh jew wife of this thief named rasullal allah) now i say why now we dont see any jews in saudi arabia? bcz muhammad usurped their land without paying money!!! but with sword and horrible crimes. and then muslims attacked to israelis and usurped their land we now jews have been in israel more than 2500 years and now muslim are tearing like crocodiles!!! I WANT FROM YOU WRITE A ESSAY ABOUT THIS AND COMPARE THIS FACT THAT I HAVE SAID IF YOU DO IT I WILL BE VERY GRATITUDE OF YOUR NICE WORK .THANKS BRAVE MAN AND YOUR assistants that are showing truth
Name: Ibn Kammuna
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 18:01:37 -0500
Comment
I would say, forget about this man you married. Live your life as if he never existed. Just live your life and ignore the bastard. Only if in the future you get in a serious relationship tell your future husband. But also get married as if the old bastard never existed. the hell with him and with all Islamists of Egypt and any other place. they are all idiots (thats if they are lucky and were blessed by higher IQs). I wish you the best dear lady.
Name: plz answer to my suggestion
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 19:24:29 -0500
Comment
ma khan and whoever that is responsible in this site plz answer my suggestion that i wrote above thanks i am waiting
Name: Ex-muslim man
Date: Tuesday December 30, 2008
Time: 23:07:07 -0500
Comment
A womans personality and wishes are of little to no importance in islam. They are to produce children, and if sufficiently submissive and chaste, get automatic entrance into mohammeds heaven. Any takers ladies?
Name: divine article....everyone shud read koran/hadith and also
bible/torah
Date: Wednesday December 31, 2008
Time: 03:12:13 -0500
Comment
my brother in ex-islam i thank u from bottom of my humble heart,for this divine article.islam is man created like judaism.i studied torah-bible/talmud [ in english ] and also koran,ahdith etc....and found : torah-bible-talmud is direct inspriration of for koran-hadith and all islamic rites and stuff.even hate for woman etc is in torah-bible-talmud,and copied into this.thanks for showing me and world the true lite of truth,truth shud prevail,and women must be rescued from the evil cult of islam specifically and religion in general.
Name: To Misinformed fellow above
Date: Wednesday December 31, 2008
Time: 05:04:22 -0500
Comment
Islam was never inspired by Judaism but by a NON-HUMAN source. The Jews and Christians are avowed nemesis of Islam. The Jews are trying to survive in the midst of hostile Islamic neighbors.
Name: to both ladies above
Date: Wednesday December 31, 2008
Time: 09:02:53 -0500
Comment
To the first lady: if you live in the US, most states will allow you to get a divorce as long as you have proven that you have tried everything to get a hold of this person and it will be granted, even without that person being available. I'm not sure how this would be for international marraiges, but it's worth a look. To the second lady: I was the one that wrote that story "cant' have a relationship with this muslim man". I was just beginning to get aquainted with him and we were talking by e-mail. At this time, I had found this site and knew I had to ask a few questions. He was living in England at the time, but it doesn't seem to almost matter now. When he had brought up having children, I asked him as to which religion/non-belief system would the children be in. He said his, of course. I told him flat out that wasn't going to happen because I wanted the children to grow up like I had, to explore religions, to make my own decision. After a while, and he saw that I was online, he would start sending me e-mails, wanting me to be online at the same time because he was "bored". I had to turn off my IM, just so I could surf. I finally told him my belief systems. I told him that we can remain friends and continue to talk but it wasn't going to go beyond that. His response was very interesting, HE NEVER WROTE BACK. Count you blessings that he didn't charm you any more than he already did.
Name:
Date: Wednesday December 31, 2008
Time: 12:27:45 -0500
Comment
To Misinformed fellow above Date: Wednesday December 31, 2008 "Islam was never inspired by Judaism but by a NON-HUMAN source"_________Actually, so was Judaism, given to Abraham by some Inhuman Source, some strange Beings, we call Angels, appearing suddenly, out of nowhere. But the strangest things of all, was that these Beings actually had to sit in the shade of a tree, and eat and drank, JUST like we, Humans. .....Just like some strange Being calling itself, Gabriel, appeared to Mohammed....JUST like some strange Light appeared to Saul/Paul (or so he claimed). Just like another Being, calling itself "Moroni," (we call it an Angel) appeared to Joseph Smith, of the Mormons. ---BYW, Mohammed was NOT the last "prophet" of "god"- it was Smith.
Name:
Date: Wednesday December 31, 2008
Time: 17:01:25 -0500
Comment
western women like real man the muslim
Name: THINK
Date: Thursday January 01, 2009
Time: 00:42:50 -0500
Comment
I would bet money at even odds the post above is an islamist supporter. Truth is many who call themselves muslims are good people who desire spiritual understanding that religion - especially the islamic religion - has yet been able to supply. Maybe they ought to search elsewhere - maybe they ought not. Maybe consider looking within yourself?.....
Name: what hell this is?marrying at the age 52 and that to to muslim?
Date: Thursday January 01, 2009
Time: 03:57:18 -0500
Comment
what hell this is?marrying at the age 52 and that to with a muslim?.
Name: Al
Date: Friday January 02, 2009
Time: 09:23:43 -0500
Comment
'western women like real man the muslim."-- Having a penis doesn't make one a man or a human being. Male ANIMALS have penises too-although, May the 4 lower animals forgive me for comparing them to male muslims - the difference is that the lower animals are innocent.
Name: Liss
Date: Friday January 02, 2009
Time: 11:43:02 -0500
Comment
Muslim men are very kind and sensitive and very understanding before marriage. Its like petting a cow before slaughtering it. After marriage, the man changes completely and suddenly becomes very straight, rude and possessive.
Name: Listen to me Mariane
Date: Friday January 02, 2009
Time: 14:21:00 -0500
Comment
A muslim man have a right to beat his wife as quran 4:34 said, even he could kill you. DO NOT EVER COMEBACK TO EGYPT, ignore him or go to neutral country if you want to divorce or no need to proceed at all
Name: lovethezob
Date: Saturday January 03, 2009
Time: 21:14:31 -0500
Comment
for what its worth....gay men from usa go through the same thing as women do when we travel in the middle east. lots and lots of arab men follow us, try to meet us and tell us they love us. usually we have great sex with them...and then want us to marry them, because they have heard that two men can marry in usa. it seems to be a big attempt to get citizenship. as long as you realize the limitations...enjoy it. they are good at what they do, but c'mon ladies...be real and stop falling in love with them. keep it real and keep it just for fun.
Name: NADEEMASLAM36
Date: Thursday January 08, 2009
Time: 00:30:12 -0500
Comment
OK PLEASE NEXT STORY SHOULD BE FROM UR ppl or u all r ANGELS any man can be wrong or right wt ISLAM HAS GOT TO DO WITH IT????ANY MARRIAGE CAN BROKE BUT BECAUSE U WANT TO SPREAD HATRED ABOUT ISLAM BUT PPL R ALSO INTELOGENT U WILL FAIL
Name: A Muslim's view of women...
Date: Friday January 09, 2009
Time: 23:43:21 -0500
Comment
Women were made to be dominated. If they should show their faces and hair that makes them no better than a prostitute. Women should stay at home ONLY going out by permission of the husband. If she forgets her place she should be confined to her room as long as the husband deems necessary. If she has a baby from a previous husband the husband may prevent her from caring for it for it will affect her beauty to her husband. If a man fears(Sura 4:34) rebellion in her, he may beat her in so long as there is no mark on her left over from the beating. A woman is deficient to a man due to her emotions meaning that a man is mentally superior to her. She should not be allowed an education for she may rebel against Allah by wanting the same rights as men. Unless she is on her menstral cycle she should ALWAYS be ready to sexually please her husband even if she is cooking at the time. IF at ANY time she were to die with her husband being displeased with her, she will go to hell to suffer with the rest of the majority of hell-dwellers which are women! A woman should have no rights equal to a man for Allah forbids it!
Name: Wasted Talents
Date: Saturday January 10, 2009
Time: 07:42:29 -0500
Comment
Islamic countries wasted the talents and positive contribution of almost half of their population by relegating their womenfolk to a state akin to a puppet.