Islam Watch - "Sura Al-Kahf (The Cave) - A giant of the Quran" by Logical Thinker

Islam Under Scrutiny by Ex-Muslims

Sura Al-Kahf (The Cave)—A giant of the Quran

06 Apr, 2008

A silly Sura considered the giant of the Quran by Muslims.

I hope most of you have seen Fitna. I found it interesting as it showed us the verses from the Quran that Jihadists are using for killing innocent people. Muslims I have spoken to, argue and tell me that the media is taking things out of context and portraying Islam in bad light. They tell me that Islam is a very peaceful religion and the Quran is full of love for humanity. I laugh at such suggestions and realise that most Muslims are ignorant about whats in the Quran. They have been brainwashed by their Mullahs, who are obviously very good at Taqqiyah.

I thought I will start off an analysis of a Quranic Sura, which is a very good example of intolerance and attack on non-believers. I have picked Sura Al-Kahf, which should raise some interesting points. This Sura, is considered one of the giant Sura of the Quran and should give you a good understanding of Mohammed's mindset. It was released in Makkah, before Jihad had been declared. I will not analyse the Sura myself, but will urge all readers to read the Sura in it's entirety. Look for these points in the verses:-

* The verses are using we, he, him, their lord etc. This is very confusing as to who wrote the verses. Also notice how Allah is confused about how many people were in the cave and is playing a guessing game. It's clearly narrating a story from somewhere.

* Notice the justification of the killing of the boy by Kidr, on grounds of his belief.

* Who is Dhul-Qarnain? Do we know of anybody in history, who had walked to the edges of the earth (if there are such places). Some say he is Alexandria the Great.

* Notice where the sun rises and sets from.

* Who are Gog and Magog ? Are these tales from a folklore story.

Below are the full verses from Sura Al-Kahf. I used the Noble Quran translation, which can be found at www.thenoblequran.com.

Sura Al-Kahf (The Cave)

All the praises and thanks be to Allâh, Who has sent down to His slave (Muhammad SAW) the Book (the Qur'ân), and has not placed therein any crookedness.
(He has made it) Straight to give warning (to the disbelievers) of a severe punishment from Him, and to give glad tidings to the believers (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism), who work righteous deeds, that they shall have a fair reward (i.e. Paradise).
They shall abide therein forever.
And to warn those (Jews, Christians, and pagans) who say, "Allâh has begotten a son (or offspring or children)."
No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. Mighty is the word that comes out of their mouths [i.e. He begot (took) sons and daughters]. They utter nothing but a lie.
Perhaps, you, would kill yourself (O Muhammad SAW) in grief, over their footsteps (for their turning away from you), because they believe not in this narration (the Qur'ân).
Verily! We have made that which is on earth as an adornment for it, in order that We may test them (mankind) as to which of them are best in deeds. [i.e.those who do good deeds in the most perfect manner, that means to do them (deeds) totally for Allâh's sake and in accordance to the legal ways of the Prophet SAW ].
And verily! We shall make all that is on it (the earth) a bare dry soil (without any vegetation or trees, etc.).
Do you think that the people of the Cave and the Inscription (the news or the names of the people of the Cave) were a wonder among Our Signs?
(Remember) when the young men fled for refuge (from their disbelieving folk) to the Cave, they said: "Our Lord! Bestow on us mercy from Yourself, and facilitate for us our affair in the right way!"
Therefore We covered up their (sense of) hearing (causing them, to go in deep sleep) in the Cave for a number of years.
Then We raised them up (from their sleep), that We might test which of the two parties was best at calculating the time period that they had tarried.
We narrate unto you (O Muhammad SAW) their story with truth: Truly! They were young men who believed in their Lord (Allâh), and We increased them in guidance.
And We made their hearts firm and strong (with the light of Faith in Allâh and bestowed upon them patience to bear the separation of their kith and kin and dwellings, etc.) when they stood up and said: "Our Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, never shall we call upon any ilâh (god) other than Him; if we did, we should indeed have uttered an enormity in disbelief.
"These our people have taken for worship âliha (gods) other than Him (Allâh).Why do they not bring for them a clear authority? And who does more wrong than he who invents a lie against Allâh.
(The young men said to one another): "And when you withdraw from them, and that which they worship, except Allâh, then seek refuge in the Cave, your Lord will open a way for you from His Mercy and will make easy for you your affair (i.e. will give you what you will need of provision, dwelling, etc.)."
And you might have seen the sun, when it rose, declining to the right from their Cave, and when it set, turning away from them to the left, while they lay in the midst of the Cave. That is (one) of the Ayât (proofs, evidences, signs) of Allâh. He whom Allâh guides, is rightly guided; but he whom He sends astray, for him you will find no Walî (guiding friend) to lead him (to the right Path).
And you would have thought them awake, while they were asleep. And We turned them on their right and on their left sides, and their dog stretching forth his two forelegs at the entrance [of the Cave or in the space near to the entrance of the Cave (as a guard at the gate)]. Had you looked at them, you would certainly have turned back from them in flight, and would certainly have been filled with awe of them.
Likewise, We awakened them (from their long deep sleep) that they might question one another. A speaker from among them said: "How long have you stayed (here)?" They said: "We have stayed (perhaps) a day or part of a day." They said: "Your Lord (Alone) knows best how long you have stayed (here). So send one of you with this silver coin of yours to the town, and let him find out which is the good lawful food, and bring some of that to you. And let him be careful and let no man know of you.
"For if they come to know of you, they will stone you (to death or abuse and harm you) or turn you back to their religion, and in that case you will never be successful."
And thus We made their case known to the people, that they might know that the Promise of Allâh is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour. (Remember) when they (the people of the city) disputed among themselvesabout their case, they said: "Construct a building over them, their Lord knows best about them," (then) those who won their point said (most probably the disbelievers): "We verily shall build a place of worship over them."
(Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth, guessing at the unseen; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "My Lord knows best their number; none knows them but a few." So debate not (about their number, etc.) except with the clear proof (which We have revealed to you). And consult not any of them (people of the Scripture, Jews and Christians) about (the affair of) the people of the Cave.
And never say of anything, "I shall do such and such thing tomorrow."
Except (with the saying), "If Allâh will!" And remember your Lord when you forget and say: "It may be that my Lord guides me unto a nearer way of truth than this."
And they stayed in their Cave three hundred (solar) years, and add nine (for lunar years).
Say: "Allâh knows best how long they stayed. With Him is (the knowledge of) the unseen of the heavens and the earth. How clearly He sees, and hears (everything)! They have no Walî (Helper, Disposer of affairs, Protector, etc.) other than Him, and He makes none to share in His Decision and His Rule."
And recite what has been revealed to you (O Muhammad SAW) of the Book (the Qur'ân) of your Lord (i.e. recite it, understand and follow its teachings and act on its orders and preach it to men). None can change His Words, and none will you find as a refuge other than Him.
And keep yourself (O Muhammad SAW) patiently with those who call on their Lord (i.e. your companions who remember their Lord with glorification, praising in prayers, etc., and other righteous deeds, etc.) morning and afternoon, seeking His Face, and let not your eyes overlook them, desiring the pomp and glitter of the life of the world; and obey not him whose heart We have made heedless of Our Remembrance, one who follows his own lusts and whose affair (deeds) has been lost.
And say: "The truth is from your Lord." Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve. Verily, We have prepared for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.), a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them (disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh). And if they ask for help (relief, water, etc.) they will be granted water like boiling oil, that will scald their faces. Terrible the drink, and an evil Murtafaqâ (dwelling, resting place, etc.)!
Verily! As for those who believe and do righteous deeds, certainly! We shall not suffer to be lost the reward of anyone who does his (righteous) deeds in the most perfect manner.
These! For them will be 'Adn (Eden) Paradise (everlasting Gardens); wherein rivers flow underneath them, therein they will be adorned with bracelets of gold, and they will wear green garments of fine and thick silk. They will recline therein on raised thrones. How good is the reward, and what an excellent Murtafaqâ (dwelling, resting place, etc.)!
And put forward to them the example of two men; unto one of them We had given two gardens of grapes, and We had surrounded both with date-palms; and had put between them green crops (cultivated fields etc.).
Each of those two gardens brought forth its produce, and failed not in the least therein, and We caused a river to gush forth in the midst of them.
And he had property (or fruit) and he said to his companion, in the course of mutual talk: I am more than you in wealth and stronger in respect of men." [See Tafsir Qurtubî, Vol. 10, Page 403].
And he went into his garden while in a state (of pride and disbelief) unjust to himself. He said: "I think not that this will ever perish.
"And I think not the Hour will ever come, and if indeed I am brought back to my Lord, (on the Day of Resurrection), I surely shall find better than this when I return to Him."
His companion said to him, during the talk with him: "Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you out of dust (i.e. your father Adam), then out of Nutfah (mixed semen drops of male and female discharge), then fashioned you into a man?
"But as for my part (I believe) that He is Allâh, my Lord and none shall I associate as partner with my Lord.
It was better for you to say, when you entered your garden: 'That which Allâh wills (will come to pass)! There is no power but with Allâh[] '. If you see me less than you in wealth, and children.
"It may be that my Lord will give me something better than your garden, and will send on it Husbân (torment, bolt, etc.) from the sky, then it will be a slippery earth.
"Or the water thereof (of the gardens) becomes deep-sunken (underground) so that you will never be able to seek it."
So his fruits were encircled (with ruin). And he remained clapping his hands with sorrow over what he had spent upon it, while it was all destroyed on its trellises, he could only say: "Would I had ascribed no partners to my Lord!" [Tafsir Ibn Kathîr]
And he had no group of men to help him against Allâh, nor could he defend or save himself.
There (on the Day of Resurrection), Al-Walâyah (the protection, power, authority and kingdom) will be for Allâh (Alone), the True God. He (Allâh) is the Best for reward and the Best for the final end. (Lâ ilâha ill-Allâh none has the right to be worshipped but Allâh).
And put forward to them the example of the life of this world, it is like the water (rain) which We send down from the sky, and the vegetation of the earth mingles with it, and becomes fresh and green. But (later) it becomes dry and broken pieces, which the winds scatter. And Allâh is Able to do everything.
Wealth and children are the adornment of the life of this world. But the good righteous deeds (five compulsory prayers, deeds of Allâh's obedience, good and nice talk, remembrance of Allâh with glorification, praises and thanks, etc.), that last, are better with your Lord for rewards and better in respect of hope.
And (remember) the Day We shall cause the mountains to pass away (like clouds of dust), and you will see the earth as a levelled plain, and we shall gather them all together so as to leave not one of them behind.
And they will be set before your Lord in (lines as) rows, (and Allâh will say): "Now indeed, you have come to Us as We created you the first time. Nay, but you thought that We had appointed no meeting for you (with Us)."
And the Book (one's Record) will be placed (in the right hand for a believer in the Oneness of Allâh, and in the left hand for a disbeliever in the Oneness of Allâh), and you will see the Mujrimûn (criminals, polytheists, sinners, etc.), fearful of that which is (recorded) therein. They will say: "Woe to us! What sort of Book is this that leaves neither a small thing nor a big thing, but has recorded it with numbers!" And they will find all that they did, placed before them, and your Lord treats no one with injustice.
And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except Iblîs (Satan). He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblîs) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zâlimûn (polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc).
I (Allâh) made them (Iblîs and his offspring) not to witness (nor took their help in) the creation of the heavens and the earth and not (even) their own creation, nor was I (Allâh) to take the misleaders as helpers.
And (remember) the Day He will say: "Call those (so-called) partners of Mine whom you pretended." Then they will cry unto them, but they will not answer them, and We shall put Maubiqa (a barrier, or enmity, or destruction, or a valley in Hell) between them.
And the Mujrimûn (criminals, polytheists, sinners), shall see the Fire and apprehend that they have to fall therein. And they will find no way of escape from there.
And indeed We have put forth every kind of example in this Qur'ân, for mankind. But, man is ever more quarrelsome than anything.
And nothing prevents men from believing, now when the guidance (the Qur'ân) has come to them, and from asking Forgiveness of their Lord, except that the ways of the ancients be repeated with them (i.e. their destruction decreed by Allâh), or the torment be brought to them face to face?
And We send not the Messengers except as giver of glad tidings and warners. But those who disbelieve, dispute with false argument, in order to refute the truth thereby. And they treat My Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), and that with which they are warned, as jest and mockery!
And who does more wrong than he who is reminded of the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of his Lord, but turns away from them forgetting what (deeds) his hands have sent forth. Truly, We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this (the Qur'ân), and in their ears, deafness. And if you (O Muhammad SAW) call them to guidance, even then they will never be guided.
And your Lord is Most Forgiving, Owner of Mercy. Were He to call them to account for what they have earned, then surely, He would have hastened their punishment. But they have their appointed time, beyond which they will find no escape.
And (all) those townships! We destroyed them when they did wrong, and We appointed a fixed time for their destruction.
And (remember) when Mûsa (Moses) said to his boy-servant: "I will not give up (travelling) until I reach the junction of the two seas or (until) I spend years and years in travelling."[]
But when they reached the junction of the two seas, they forgot their fish, and it took its way through the sea as in a tunnel.
So when they had passed further on (beyond that fixed place), Mûsa (Moses) said to his boy-servant: "Bring us our morning meal; truly, we have suffered much fatigue in this, our journey."
He said: "Do you remember when we betook ourselves to the rock? I indeed forgot the fish, none but Shaitân (Satan) made me forget to remember it. It took its course into the sea in a strange (way)!"
[Mûsa (Moses)] said: "That is what we have been seeking." So they went back retracing their footsteps.
Then they found one of Our slaves, unto whom We had bestowed mercy from Us, and whom We had taught knowledge from Us.
Mûsa (Moses) said to him (Khidr) "May I follow you so that you teach me something of that knowledge (guidance and true path) which you have been taught (by Allâh)?"
He (Khidr) said: "Verily! You will not be able to have patience with me!
"And how can you have patience about a thing which you know not?"
Mûsa (Moses) said: "If Allâh will, you will find me patient, and I will not disobey you in aught."
He (Khidr) said: "Then, if you follow me, ask me not about anything till I myself mention it to you."
So they both proceeded, till, when they embarked the ship, he (Khidr) scuttled it. Mûsa (Moses) said: "Have you scuttled it in order to drown its people? Verily, you have committed a thing "Imra" (a Munkar - evil, bad, dreadful thing)."
He (Khidr) said: "Did I not tell you, that you would not be able to have patience with me?"
[Mûsa (Moses)] said: "Call me not to account for what I forgot[], and be not hard upon me for my affair (with you)."
Then they both proceeded, till they met a boy, he (Khidr) killed him. Mûsa (Moses) said: "Have you killed an innocent person who had killed none? Verily, you have committed a thing "Nukra" (a great Munkar - prohibited, evil, dreadful thing)!"
(Khidr) said: "Did I not tell you that you can have no patience with me?"
[Mûsa (Moses)] said: "If I ask you anything after this, keep me not in your company, you have received an excuse from me."
Then they both proceeded, till, when they came to the people of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused to entertain them. Then they found therein a wall about to collapse and he (Khidr) set it up straight. [Mûsa (Moses)] said: If you had wished, surely, you could have taken wages for it!"
(Khidr) said: "This is the parting between me and you, I will tell you the interpretation of (those) things over which you were unable to hold patience.
"As for the ship, it belonged to Masâkîn (poor people) working in the sea. So I wished to make a defective damage in it, as there was a king after them who seized every ship by force.
"And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief.
"So we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in righteousness and near to mercy.
"And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the town; and there was under it a treasure belonging to them; and their father was a righteous man, and your Lord intended that they should attain their age of full strength and take out their treasure as a mercy from your Lord. And I did it not of my own accord. That is the interpretation of those (things) over which you could not hold patience."
And they ask you about Dhul-Qarnain. Say: "I shall recite to you something of his story."
Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything.
So he followed a way.
Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people. We (Allâh) said (by inspiration): "O Dhul-Qarnain! Either you punish them, or treat them with kindness."
He said: "As for him (a disbeliever in the Oneness of Allâh) who does wrong, we shall punish him; and then he will be brought back unto his Lord; Who will punish him with a terrible torment (Hell).
"But as for him who believes (in Allâh's Oneness) and works righteousness, he shall have the best reward, (Paradise), and we (Dhul-Qarnain) shall speak unto him mild words (as instructions)."
Then he followed another way,
Until, when he came to the rising place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We (Allâh) had provided no shelter against the sun.
So (it was)! And We knew all about him (Dhul-Qarnain).
Then he followed (another) way,
Until, when he reached between two mountains, he found, before (near) them (those two mountains), a people who scarcely understood a word.
They said: "O Dhul-Qarnain! Verily! Ya'jûj and Ma'jûj (Gog and Magog)[] are doing great mischief in the land. Shall we then pay you a tribute in order that you might erect a barrier between us and them?"
He said: "That (wealth, authority and power) in which my Lord had established me is better (than your tribute). So help me with strength (of men), I will erect between you and them a barrier.
"Give me pieces (blocks) of iron," then, when he had filled up the gap between the two mountain-cliffs, he said: "Blow," till when he had made it (red as) fire, he said: "Bring me molten copper to pour over it."
So they [Ya'jûj and Ma'jûj (Gog and Magog)] were made powerless to scale it or dig through it.
Dhul-Qarnain) said: "This is a mercy from my Lord, but when the Promise of my Lord comes, He shall level it down to the ground. And the Promise of my Lord is ever true."
And on that Day [i.e. the Day Ya'jûj and Ma'jûj (Gog and Magog) will come out], We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another, and the Trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.
And on that Day We shall present Hell to the disbelievers, plain to view,
(To) Those whose eyes had been under a covering from My Reminder (this Qur'ân), and who could not bear to hear (it).
Do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My slaves [i.e., the angels, Allâh's Messengers, 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), etc.] as Auliyâ' (lords, gods, protectors, etc.) besides Me? Verily, We have prepared Hell as an entertainment for the disbelievers (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism)[].
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Shall We tell you the greatest losers in respect of (their) deeds?
"Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life while they thought that they were acquiring good by their deeds![]
"They are those who deny the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of their Lord and the Meeting with Him (in the Hereafter). So their works are in vain, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall not give them any weight.
"That shall be their recompense, Hell; because they disbelieved and took My Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and My Messengers by way of jest and mockery.
"Verily! Those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh Islâmic Monotheism) and do righteous deeds, shall have the Gardens of Al-Firdaus (the Paradise) for their entertainment.
"Wherein they shall dwell (forever). No desire will they have to be removed therefrom."
Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind). "If the sea were ink for (writing) the Words of my Lord, surely, the sea would be exhausted before the Words of my Lord would be finished, even if we brought (another sea) like it for its aid."
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "I am only a man like you. It has been inspired to me that your Ilâh (God) is One Ilâh (God i.e. Allâh). So whoever hopes for the Meeting[] with his Lord, let him work righteousness and associate none as a partner in the worship of his Lord."

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Logical thinker is a non-practising Muslim. He leaves in the United Kingdom.

Name: Mohammad
Date: Saturday April 05, 2008
Time: 21:52:58 -0700

Comment

If you had a reasonable understanding of classical arabic, there wouldn't arise any questions regarding the artistic usage of pronouns in the Quran. The setting of the sun is described as understood by Zal-Qarnayn. The verse is clear in saying that that is what he found and perceived. The Quran is beautifully paints what Zal-Qarnayn saw. If somebody says: today sun will set at 7:56 p.m. does that mean he really believes that sun sets somewhere? A little familiarity with language and art would have prevented you from asking such questions.

Name: The Cave
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 01:34:50 -0700

Comment

The Cave-story derives from a post-biblian christian legend of the Seven Sleepers and it is also quite obvious that the Dhul-Qarnain story is a rewritten version of the Alexander-Romance, probably a christian version as well. Both texts were well known in the pre-islamic age and I think they were taken into the quran to distinguish it from the bible because Mohammad had already copied too many texts from there. Concerning Dhul-Qarnain it has to be told that for many centuries there was no doubt that he is identical to Alexander the Great and all the Alexander Romances we know from confirm this to almost 100%. Only in the past few years many muslim scholars began to look for alternmatives, because they realized that Alexander cannot have been a holy man by islamic standards. He was a polytheist, maybe even an idolator, regarded himself as god, was drinking and maybe even gay. Of course this was not to be found in the christian version of the Alexander Romance. So there is nothing special about the Surah. Nothing from god, only recycled legends from christian sources.

Name: Observer for Mohammad
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 02:48:17 -0700

Comment

Why is Allah using Dhul-Qarnain's knowledge to tell us where the sun rises and sets. Surely, Allah should know better as he is supposedly the creator of the universe. Some serious reasoning required here.

Name: albert
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 03:09:28 -0700

Comment

Dear Logical Thinker, This literature is a painful reading to any sensitive mind. The first words are: "slave", "crookedness", "warning", "severe punishment", "kill yourself in grief", and so on. This is a langage of threat and violence. The author is trying to impress the reader with a fit of anger. His aim is to frighten and convince that he possess a superior knowledge of mystic secrets. His fragile ego try to assert again and again that he is God omniscient and no one else is. Like a child gets into a tantrum, he cannot stand any contradiction. That is why he utters curses against his uncle Abu Lahab in sura 111, and curses again other religionists there. The whole sutra is the same mill grinding in a confuse mix another set of anecdoctal ancient texts assortment. The whole affair is rather pathetic.

Name: Atheist
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 05:35:18 -0700

Comment

Any sane person has to only read the Quran to find the truth of it all. It is obvious that the Quran is the mind of a disturbed being.

Name: Re: Quran on Jews and Christians
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 08:33:09 -0700

Comment

The quran is the only holy text which calls jews and christians pigs and monkeys! This is not very noble, not really! The language of the quran is indeed very vulgar sometimes. "Sperm, gushed out from the backbone!" "Made from a spermdrop". Sounds like the language of a heavy masturbater to me. Maybe this how the author of the quran got his ideas.

Name: bobby
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 09:16:29 -0700

Comment

why would the muslims say you should not take the koran out of context, when there is no context at all for its gibberish. it is a haphazard set of verses not in any particular order. so you should be able to interpret each verse on its own diabolical meaning.

Name: Mohammad to Observer
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 10:30:41 -0700

Comment

It is not the purpose of Quran to talk about the solar system. That particular story is about the journey of a prophet of god and Quran stays loyal to what that person saw, said, and did. It would be silly if at that point Quran had said: "84. Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. However he did not know any better because in fact sun was not setting anywhere... it was the earth that was rotating around the sun and gave the false impression that sun was setting." This would have made sense to today's people but not to the 7th century man. On the other hand, all Quran is trying to say there is the story of Dhulqarnayn not lecturing on astronomy.

Name: Mohammad
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 10:37:51 -0700

Comment

Name: Re: Mohammad
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 11:05:16 -0700

Comment

002.065 YUSUFALI: And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath: We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected." Here is what is written in the quran. Do you really think this not an insult??? Yes, you always have an answer to everything. But your thinking is totally wrong. You think that the quran MUST always be right because it´s from god. Therefore, you rebuild the whole world until everything fits together and until anything harmonizes with the quran. But this is the very reason for all the disorder in the islamic world. You cannot change the truth until it harmonizes with the quran. This won´t work. And there are so many things that did never work. Do you know why the arabs lost the war against Israel in 1967? Because you cannot fight a modern army with ancient thinking, at least not in a regular war.

Name: Re: Re: Mohammad
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 11:39:38 -0700

Comment

So they transgressed in the matter of Sabbath and that's why god transformed them to apes. This is to say if they were obedient Jews and had followed the god's commandment of not working during Sabbath, they would have not been punished. What is not clear in this story? How could anyone accuse Quran of being anti-jewish while it is clearly saying that those jews were punished for not being righeous jews. The 1967 war is a long story. The Arabs lost that war for many reasons none of which was due to fighting a modern army.

Name: Re: Re: Re: Mohammad
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 12:14:12 -0700

Comment

You are so poor! The whole story is a disgusting insult against humanity and you try to convince me that everything is all right? Do you really believe in this ridiculous story??? That Allah turned jews into apes because they did something wrong? Is this ok??? And then "Allah" calls Jews and Christians "People of the Book". What book? Did "Allah" not know that there were already hundreds of thousands books in the library of Alexandria??? What if I would call all muslims "the peole of only one book"? Did you ever read anything else than the quran? I think you should learn that there are many viewpoints. It´s not that I am a regular bible-fan, but I have no doubt that the quran is mainly a copy from it, with only minor variations and additions here and there, in arabic of course, because it sounds so nice to all arabs to be Allahs favoured and elected people. Then you of course believe that only Islam is right and all other religions are wrong. Then only you muslims will enter the paradise and f**k your 72 virgins (is there any love in play?), while all infidels will enter hell according to your clot cult. It´s so cheap! Do you really think that the world is so easy? Mohammad fooled you all and you refuse to realize it.

Name: Observer for Mahomed
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 12:37:59 -0700

Comment

Using your logic, the Quran is full of stories told by other people. Since you say Allah is ony reporting what somebody else said, it is thus true to say that lies or misleading stories are supported in the Quran by the omniscient. I am now beginning to understand your Allah. You also notice how your Allah supports the chilling murder of a boy in this sura. Are you also going to say that the Quran is only reporting this. How wonderful of Allah to report only terror and misleading stories in a book meant to enlighten humanity.

Name: Another observer
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 12:51:34 -0700

Comment

Bobby, I fully support you. The structure of the whole Quran is extremely poor. Muslims claim that Quran is not meant to be understood fully by humans. How foolish and stupid would Allah have to be to send a book to humans which nobody would understand. Can you think of an author who writes a book to confuse the readers ? I think a 12 year High School student can write better structured verses than these. You can also see why there are so many sects in Islam, each wanting to kill the others. The root cause of the problem that Muslims don't understand is the Quran. If only they accepted that this is not from a superior being, the world would be a better place for all humanity to enjoy.

Name: Re: Re: Re: Mohammad - addendum
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 12:54:24 -0700

Comment

And now I will tell you in only a single word, why all this islamic thinking and believing is wrong and why all muslim countries will never become able to catch up with israel and the western countries, nor with the atheistic, agnostic or polytheistic countries in the far east or anywhere in the world. Do you know the word I am talking about? No, you have no idea because you were never taught in this discipline! You were always taught to believe, weren´t you? Yes! And in your view, everybody who does not believe is an infidel, an unbeliever, someone who deserves it to be oppressed or even to be killed! But it is indeed the DOUBT which made the western countries so strong, and the wish to check everything, even the holiest scriptures, the holiest habits, the thought that you are superior, anything! And if you muslims had only a tiny quantity of DOUBT within you, you would understand from the beginning, that the quran is definitely not what it pretends to be. But if you never develop any DOUBT within your hearts then you will never be able to think critically and rationally, nor will you ever be able to reflect anything in a scientific manner. Whenever I read all this muslim-comments then I realize that you are all unable to think in an unbiased way. You are always biased and you always think that you know that you are right and that the "infidels" must be wrong just because they are infidels and you are not. We are the good and they are the bad. But I do hate Bush like you and have no doubt that he is an a*****e, but I would never, never believe in Islam. However, wrong is the one who always thinks that only he is right. Sperm does not turn into clot and clot does not turn into flesh. And there will be no 72 virgins in paradies and Allah did not fix the stars to the sky. And there will be no Gog-Magog revealation and no Mahdi because all this was invented by humans. This does not necessarily mean that there is no god at all. But I tell you that you will not find god by blind faith. There is more required. On the other hand, you all deserve more. To find god, you must also have some DOUBT in your heart, the most important condition for rational thinking!!!

Name: go on and watch this !
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 13:52:06 -0700

Comment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjtetxrvu18

Name: The Bible
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 17:56:32 -0700

Comment

Please do not speak of things you are ignorant in. The Bible does speak of the Holy Trinity among many other things you spoke incorrectly about. Muslims do believe Jesus Christ was a profit but, not the son of God.

Name: Re:Re:Re:Re: Mohammad
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 19:26:59 -0700

Comment

Do I really believe that god turned some humans into apes? Yes but this is a matter of belief. I have no empirical proof that this happened the same way that you have no empirical proof that god exists (but you believe He does). But you are changing the discussion now. Regardless of that story being true or false, my claim was that it did not constitute anti-Semitism. I also think it is not an insult against humanity if I believe some humans are lower than animals. If a human being rapes a 10 year old and then kills her and tries to eat her (as it was done by an American recently) then I think that person is lower than even apes and I am not insulting humanity by saying this. Calling Jews and Christians 'people of the book' is not an insult. It is a descriptive word for them which disproves the claims of the extremists that they should be called 'infidels'. If you call me 'the person of the book Quran', I will accept it as an honor. No true Jew is ashamed of being called 'the person of Torah' and no true Christian is ashamed of being called 'the person of Bible'. What is hidden in this description is a message to any true Jew or Christian that god is reminding them of the holy books and His commandments that He had sent previously to humanity. I don't believe that Jews and Christians enter hellfire for just being Jewish or Christian. To say they enter hellfire is against Quranic message which values 'belief in god' and 'action in service of god' and 'fear of god'. Your problem is that you have studied Islam only under either anti-Muslims or Muslim extremists. It will be more informing for you to study Islamic history from traditional sources and under supervision of a moderate Muslim (try Hamza Yusuf for example). I am not saying that will make you convert to Islam but it will give you the right picture and you will not be manipulated by those who will benefit from your fear. About having doubts you are wrong. It is in human nature to experience doubt and we all have. Even prophets of god had doubts at times. We believe that faith increases and decreases but it will take a lot to take somebody out of the fold of belief.

Name: Concerning doubt
Date: Sunday April 06, 2008
Time: 23:56:45 -0700

Comment

Sorry, but I would like to show you what the quran knows about doubt: 002.023 YUSUFALI: "And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true." This is one of the most stupid sayings I ever read. If somebody has doubt, nobody can expect him to write a similar surah. Anyway, would it give any evidence? Islam is against rational thinking. There is another saying (sorry, don´t have the numbers at hand) where the believers are told not to ask too many questions if any. The human islamicus is indeed somebody who does not ask questions, much like dogs, who just follow their keepers. But we are not dogs. We have brains and we are supposed to make use of it. I think this is also the reason why democracy works almost everywhere in the world except in muslim countries. Islamic thinking is about putting women behind headscarves because humans are regarded as sex-maniacs. By the way, I know what moderate muslims say but I strongly believe that they are wrong. The problem is not the interpretation of islam, it is islam itself. A religion which can be "misunderstood" in so many manners is good for nothing. Quran teaches everywhere that it is so clear, however, there is nothing clear at all. And if you are a killer then you can always point to the quran and say: Look! Here it is clearly written that I can kill infidels, beat my wife and so on! If you were god, would you write such things? Of course everywhre in the world husbands are beating their wifes, but what if there is written law that allows you to do so??? Imagine the many tears from millions of women beaten again and again by stupid muslims who just believe it´s ok because god told him so. That´s why I would say that Islam, in general, is a cult and no religion. You have just to believe that the quran was thrown from heaven, much like the stone of the Kaaba, and that´s all. It is not required to understand anything. Only blind faith and to follow like a dog.

Name: ALLAH SAYS WOMEN WHO MENSTRATE R ILL
Date: Monday April 07, 2008
Time: 00:17:40 -0700

Comment

IN THE COW ALLAH/KORAN SAYS THAT WOMEN WHO MENSTRUATE R ILL.ALSO,IF ALLAH IS ALL POWERFUL THEN HOW IBLIS DISOBEYED ALLAH AND ALLAH DOES NOTHING TO STOP HIM,BUT HE MADE IBLIS THE HEAD OF HELL AND BURN HUMANS IN HELL,BCOZ HE ALLOWED IBLSI TO TRICK HUMANS INTO NOT BEING BELIEVERS.WHAT TYPE OF A PIG IS THIS ALLAH,WHO HIMSELF MAKE HIS OWN JINN DISOBEY HIM,THEN MAKE HIM HEAD OF HELL,AND THEN CREATE HUMANS WHO R TRICKED BY HIS OWN CREATION IBLIS TO GO TO HELL.THIS GOD OF THE JEWS CHRISTIANSD AND MUSLIMS IS A VERY SADISTIC DEITY.HE IS IMAGINRY ALLAH OF MUHAMED,HE CANT BE THE TRUE GOD.BUDDHISM IS BETTER THAN ISLAM,EVEN HINDUISM DESPITE ITS IDOLATORY IS BETTER THAN ISLAM I HV LEFT ISLAM 10-15 YRS BACK AFTER READING KORAN AND SEEING THE BLOODY NATURE OF ISLAM.

Name: Allah obeys Mo!!
Date: Monday April 07, 2008
Time: 03:29:05 -0700

Comment

When Mo wanted Zainab, his daughter in law, Allah obeyed him and let him to marry Zainab. Who is the servant anyway? Mo? or Allah? As Aisyah said, how Allah rushed in following his prophet's need.

Name: balam to concerning doubt
Date: Monday April 07, 2008
Time: 05:07:17 -0700

Comment

You have beautifully analysed Islam.It is only the brainless dogs who can follow it without questioning.

Name: CLARK
Date: Monday April 07, 2008
Time: 07:41:04 -0700

Comment

Thanks ever so much for the sura above, clearly it has changed my view about Islam , the way it is written and how it fits in and makes one float, i have thus decided to look into the creator and the the writer of this wonderful text with an open heart, there seems to be quite a few readers who seem to have made their minds up regarding Islam,by consistently making negative and very often very rude comments, i urge them to be gracious in their approch.

Name: Interpreting The Quran
Date: Monday April 07, 2008
Time: 14:30:47 -0700

Comment

None of you will ever conclude a debate about the true position of Islam in regards to the Jews using just the Quran. For every set of verses quoted by one side, the other side will quote other verses to contradict that position. Most things in the Quran are contradicted somewhere else. I find that the best way to determine for real what the true Islam is comes from studying the words and deeds of Muhammad himself. The Quran leaves no doubt that Muhammad is the correct example of human behavior on Earth, for all time (i.e. the "Perfect Man", or "al-insan al-kamil"). Therefore, to know Islam's view of the Jews, you need only look at how Muhammad treated them. Among many other deeds, he banished 2 of the 3 Jewish tribes in Arabia, after stealing most of their possesions. For the third one, the Banu Quraizah tribe, he had much bigger plans. After they surrendered unconditionally to him, he either raped or sold into slavery all of the women and children. And, all of the post-pubescent males were beheaded on a single day (between 600 and 900 of them). There should be no question about how Allah guided, through Muhammad, the proper behavior towards Jews.

Name: JW Morrison
Date: Monday April 07, 2008
Time: 16:07:28 -0700

Comment

I cannot believe the bile I read in the Cave. I can only say that this is not what I have been told about Islam. I guess that Gabriel was really the devil sowing his lies.

Name: SomeOne
Date: Monday April 07, 2008
Time: 17:52:35 -0700

Comment

nti-Islam-Blog (In Arabic) http://blog.unmasking-islam.net/ >>>>>>>>> Photos Album (Islam under microscope) http://album.unmasking-islam.net >>>>>>>> Video (Islam in practice) Beheadings, and cutting hands http://album.unmasking-islam.net/thumbnails-12.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy the bloody watch

Name: voltaire_reborn
Date: Monday April 07, 2008
Time: 22:42:12 -0700

Comment

islam makes a)brain damage and mental slavery b)irrational and intolerant with constant fear of inidels c)makes man butcher animal d)all of the above

Name: islam is fake and absurd irratiinal
Date: Monday April 07, 2008
Time: 22:52:12 -0700

Comment

islam is fake and absurd irratiinal religion. time has now come to its self destrucyion.

Name: Shafee al-Zindig
Date: Tuesday April 08, 2008
Time: 05:11:39 -0700

Comment

Quote: They said: "O Dhul-Qarnain! Verily! Ya'jûj and Ma'jûj (Gog and Magog) are doing great mischief in the land. Shall we then pay you a tribute in order that you might erect a barrier between us and them?" (Quran – The Cave: 94) This distorted fairy tale of Muhammad about the Gog and Magog people refers to the savage Mongols and Turks of ancient times who preyed like hyenas on their neighbors for booty, slaves and women as the Arabs did later under Islam. The civilized Chinese, who were their chief victims, erected the Great Wall of China as a barrier between them. Muhammad, in his Allah-induced ignorance, attributed the construction of this Great Wall to Alexander the Great. This, of course, on top of a host of other nonsense in this one chapter alone, such as:- • People sleeping for hundreds of years and when they awaken they look for Halaal food • A gratuitous insult to all left-handed people who were born that way • Allah mischievously setting a seal over the hearts of infidels so that they cannot understand his Quran and then being sadistically punished for eternity for this cruel act of merciful Allah • A futile search for a non-existent and legendary junction of two seas • A dead fish becoming alive in the water • Blaming Satan for one’s forgetfulness • A boy being preemptively murdered by Khidr, a self-righteous and merciful man of God because he would maybe have grown up and killed his parents • The sun setting in a muddy pond and rising in a land where the sun never sets because Allah omitted to provide shelter for its unfortunate inhabitants. And Muslims have the gall to wonder why we non-Muslims “treat My verses and that with which they are warned, as jest and mockery!”

Name: Marie to Muhammad
Date: Tuesday April 08, 2008
Time: 13:22:33 -0700

Comment

"The quran is the only holy text which calls jews and christians pigs and monkeys!" This is completely false. Quran is only saying that a group of jews and christians were turned into monkeys and pigs NOT because they were jews and christians BUT because they did not follow their respective religions and commandments sent down by god. Any fair person would agree this is very different from calling jews and christians pigs and monkeys. Sura 3:70-71. Ye People of the Book! Why reject ye the Signs of Allah, of which ye are (Yourselves) witnesses? Ye People of the Book! Why do ye clothe Truth with falsehood, and conceal the Truth, while ye have knowledge? Sura 3:78. There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah. It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it! The Quran does not make any distinctions between groups of Jews and Christians when it states Jews and Christians are the sons of apes and pigs. It applies to all Jews and Christians, because the Quran states Jews and Christians have fallen away from the the path of Allah and have corrupted the scriptures. According to Islam that is why Allah revealed his message to Muhammed, which leads me to this question. If Allah knows everything and he could see into the past and the future then he should have known in advance the Jews and Christians would fall away from the true path. If this were true, then Allah would have already figured out a way to keep the Jews and Christians from falling away by showing them that they are falling away from the true path. He would have tried to communicate to the Jews and Christians they were falling away from his path. It would have been more logical if he himself would have directly tried to communicate with the Jews and Christians about what they are doing. If Allah were try to keep them in line himself, there would have been no need to create another religion to surpass both Judiasm and Christianity, because why would Allah send another messenger and another religion to bring people back to him, if he could do it himself? Also the verses I mentioned above do not make any distinctions between groups of Jews and Christians. These verses refer to all Jews and Christians, because Muhammed was pissed at them for not believing in his claims as the prophet of Allah and therefore went after them. The first target of his wrath was the Banu Qurayza Sura 33:25. And Allah turned back the Unbelievers for (all) their fury: no advantage did they gain; and enough is Allah for the believers in their fight. And Allah is full of Strength, able to enforce His Will. And those of the People of the Book who aided them - Allah did take them down from their strongholds and cast terror into their hearts. (So that) some ye slew, and some ye made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, and of a land which ye had not frequented (before). And Allah has power over all things. Here's something about the Banu Quraiza. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qurayzah

Name: Marie to Muhammad
Date: Tuesday April 08, 2008
Time: 13:26:40 -0700

Comment

Name: Finding the Truth
Date: Wednesday April 09, 2008
Time: 03:37:56 -0700

Comment

Moslem will find the truth about Mo and Islam after they are dead, and meet Mo in Hell. After he killed adn beheaded thousands of people, hardly he will be accepted in Heaven. He will be there with Hitler, especially. It is not because they killed Jews, but for so many people they had killed. Or, maybe he is f*cking the 72 ever virgin girls in his heaven? Who's to know?

Name: to: Quran on Jews and Christians
Date: Wednesday April 09, 2008
Time: 03:44:39 -0700

Comment

"For example: Jesus himself never claimed to be God or the begotten Son of God; He never preached absurd Trinity; He never told his followers to worship him; In fact, he used to pray to God; and so on". I think you better read first the Gospel of Matthew. Don't say/write anything stupid like this anymore. Mohammad, your prophet is the personification of Iblis himself, disguised as a servant of Allah. (not the Chrstian One God).

Name:
Date: Wednesday April 09, 2008
Time: 23:40:59 -0700

Comment

Indeed Islam is a religion of peace, but only for muslims and in particular Wahabis. When they have killed all nonmuslims nodoubt, peace MAY prevail among them.

Name: Re Re Re Re Mohammed.
Date: Wednesday April 09, 2008
Time: 23:55:37 -0700

Comment

How many of your ancesotrs do you remember. How long could be the list ? How many of them resemble you ? Any idea of your ancestor 10,000 years and beyond. You may argue that it is foolish to believe they existed and your dear Allah created you directly from a clot. Man, read Darwin . When you would not believe if a picture of someone and tell you it is that of your great great great great grandparent and may call it nonsense then it is equivalent to your statement that apes didnot evolve into Homo sapiens. Dig out fossil record or read anthropology and you will know the truth. But, alas the mullah says you were created from a clot and you believe it.May Allah come to your rescue.

Name: Re^6 Mohammad
Date: Thursday April 10, 2008
Time: 21:36:30 -0700

Comment

Did you read my posts carefully. Where do I reject evolution? I don't see a contradiction between Quran and Evolution.

Name: Paul R.
Date: Saturday April 12, 2008
Time: 20:42:02 -0700

Comment

A poor writer indeed, this Muhammad. Or are we to blame Jibreel? Surely God can't have written this sorry stuff. Maybe someone should sue the Muhammadans for blasphemy if they keep attributing this rubbish to God.

Name: prince of angels
Date: Monday April 14, 2008
Time: 03:21:55 -0700

Comment

....to all those who are biased against islam....just wait and watch....do nothing just wait....time will show the truth...time is the greatest healer to your biased and prejudiced disease...islam has always been under threat coz unlike other religions it is not in the monopoly of priestly classes....but the truth from Almighty....as it is been mentioned in quran Islam will overcome all other dogmas of life....and it is happening....

Name: Observer
Date: Tuesday April 15, 2008
Time: 05:08:18 -0700

Comment

The building of gates in the Caucasus Mountains by Alexander to repel the barbarian peoples identified with Gog and Magog has ancient provenance. The 1st century A.D. Jewish historian Flavius Josephus mentions that "a nation of the Alans, whom we have previously mentioned elsewhere as being Scythians," travelled through "a passage which King Alexander [the Great] shut up with iron gates". Josephus also records that the people of Magog, the Magogites, were synonymous with the Scythians. According to R. A. Anderson, this merely indicates that the main elements of the story were already in place six centuries before the Qur'an's revelation, not that the story itself was known in the cohesive form apparent in the Qur'anic account. Similarly, Saint Jerome's Letter 77 mentions that "the hordes of the Huns had poured forth all the way from Maeotis (they had their haunts between the icy Tanais and the rude Massagetae, where the gates of Alexander keep back the wild peoples behind the Caucasus)". In his Commentary on Ezekiel (38:2), Jerome identifies the nations located beyond the Caucasus and near Lake Maeotis as Gog and Magog.

Name: Terrorest (as you may think of us)
Date: Wednesday April 16, 2008
Time: 16:23:26 -0700

Comment

I have one comment please,Do you think that all muslims (from about 1500 year till now) didn't notice all of your comments and they just read without thinking? believe me guys,it needs more than reading the translated text so as to get to the quran wisdom and intensions.It needs to be more fare and to respect the other minds (even you may dissagree with them),and the most important thing..to not be driven or biased by any idea (no prejudgment),Thanks

Name: Paul Troon
Date: Wednesday April 16, 2008
Time: 19:45:04 -0700

Comment

Well, after reading the responses to this article, it never ceases to amaze me how you people will bend and torture language to make it fit. Look, If the "profit" (Not prophet) said "the sun sets in a muddy spring" he meant it. . . The God awful koran does not use alagory in koran. . . . But this bears out one thing, Do you know why you can't circumcise a muslim? -there's no end to them pricks!

Name: James Khan
Date: Saturday April 19, 2008
Time: 04:06:56 -0700

Comment

The whole sura is gibberish. It does not have a central theme. This proves that it came from prophet Mohammed's subconscious mind.

Name: Thinker
Date: Monday April 28, 2008
Time: 15:25:50 -0700

Comment

Seeing the big number of negative comments, I'd like to post something positive that would open your hearts and look at this in a positive perspective. I have clearly seen in the previous posts that many of you have COMPLETELY misinterepreted what you have read. Any book can be seen in both postive and negative ways, but if you look at the positives of the Quran, and base it on facts rather than interpreting on your ownit would truly outweigh the these misconceptions. So, instead of making negative comments, I urge you to base your

Name: commenter
Date: Saturday November 01, 2008
Time: 16:29:18 -0500

Comment

what are some of the stories in suratul kahf besides the garden one?

Name:	closed
Comment: