Islam Watch - Debate between Syed Kamran Mirza and Harvard Islamist

[This fanatic Islamist wrote a very lengthy jargonized response to my essay. He did not rebut a word that I wrote, rather he used vitriolic slurs to threaten me and tried to prove Quranic divinity with full of unadulterated gibberish and nonsensical miracles of Quranic numbers. For convenience of the readers I have shortened his very lengthy letter. Please read his letter and my subsequent response below.]

You have published a superb site (www.homa.org) and I really want to show my appreciation, so can you flippin give your home address please.

Insolent ignorants like you should be buried at birth or stoned to death. Who said you have the rights to search for contradictions in the Holy Qu'ran. I can swear on Allah that this Holy Book is the one and only way to GOD. While you were idiotically looking for flaws, why did you not search for miracles and perfection. Believe you me, everything you said was a whole load of rubbish and in that process you only lost your faith and your only chance to escape hell fire

Can I tell you something, you are being so petty as you cannot even understand symbolic and ambiguous remarks. Use your brain, If Allah made everything so obvious in the Quran and make explicit statements, how the hell can he insert all the miracles and wonders of the Quran. Simply, God has given us the Knowledge and Understanding and as vice-gerents we can decide to use this for good or bad, as we have free will, so the only way a true follower will gain Takwah (belief) is through exploring the hidden implications in the Qu'ran. And I feel like crying to realise the state of this present day, where people who should be promoting the glorious religion are laughing and joking humourously about the The Big BOSS (Malick, Allah). It is no surprise though because it is predicted in the Quran that towards the End of the World people will laugh at the one to be worshipped.

All your stupid assumptions are merely mirroring your uniform hatred towards our one true religion. First of all,

this only suggests the Quran's inimitability in that even a six year old can memorise the Holy Qu'ran without a single mistake. So, how many people do you know, know the whole Bible by heart, or the whole Torah by heart. This allows these holy scriptures to be hidden from the world without notice as no one can rewrite another one from memory. But if this was to happen to a Quran, how many thousands can rewrite the Quran, and how can you make changes without being noticed? So, I have to say that the Quran itself is only said to be easy to memorise, but the archaic language itself is much harder to interpret. So, don't you think in the process of defining the Quran, that people make mistakes, after all they are only humans and not God. So, it is these mistakes that you take to granted and ignorantly criticise The Creator.

When you take the Earth and the Heavens, they are symbolic to each other as for the humans living now, Earth is of equivalence to Heaven, so it is the same principal that is taken in the Quran to say that

"And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. "(Qur'an, 51:47)

So this is implicitly suggesting the expansion of the Universe. People like you only look at explicit meanings, just imagine if God said "we are steadily expanding the Universe", then don't you think people 1400 years ago would have had the knowledge and what will become of us then, there will simply be an imbalance, so God knew that by keeping it implicit, only modernised era would be able to identify the subtlety.

Also another example, one of the properties of seas that has only recently been discovered is related in a verse of the Qur'an as follows:

He has let loose the two seas, converging together, with a barrier between them they do not break through. (Qur'an, 55:19-20)

As a physicist from Harvard University, I luckily have the knowledge to understand that this property of the seas, that is, that they meet and yet do not intermix, has only very recently been discovered by oceanographers. Because of the physical force called "surface tension," the waters of neighbouring seas do not mix. Caused by the difference in the density of their waters, surface tension prevents them from mingling with one another, just as if a thin wall were between them.

It is interesting that, during a period when there was little knowledge of physics, and of surface tension, or oceanography, this truth was revealed in the Qur'an.

There are many more miracles which I will send you that some of my University research Students found out. And here is another peace of miracle, upto 11 scientists who graduated from my Uni, have converted to Islam due to the miracles that they uncovered.

The number 19 is numerologically encoded in verses. This number is stressed in the words of the Qur'an: "There are nineteen in charge of it." (Qur'an, 74:30), and is encoded in various places in the Book. Some examples of this can be listed as follows:

1st letter	8th letter	15th letter
2nd letter	9th letter	16th letter
3rd letter	10th letter	17th letter
4th letter	11th letter	18th letter
5th letter	12th letter	19th letter
6th letter	13th letter
7th letter	14th letter

42nd Sura		57 (19x3) Letter Qaf
50th Sura	45th verse	50+45=95 (19x5)
42nd Sura	53rd verse	42+53=95 (19x5)

The connection between the number 19 and the Pascal triangle with regard to the revelation sequence of the Qur'anic verses

Apart from the miraculous characteristics of the Qur'an which we have looked into so far, it also contains what we can term "mathematical miracles." There are many examples of this fascinating Qur'anic aspect. One example of this is the number of repetitions of certain words in the Qur'an. Some related words are surprisingly repeated the same number of times. Below is a list of such words and the number of repetitions in the Qur'an.

: the sum of the number of references to the stages of man's creation is the same: i.e.

As you know, every letter in the Arabic alphabet has a numerical (gematrical) value according to many line through researches. In other words, in Arabic every letter stands for a number. A number of calculations can be made from this basis. These are referred to as numerological (abjad) calculations or "hisab al-jumal." Muslims who took advantage of the fact that every letter of the alphabet represents a number have used this in a number of fields. Ilm'ul Jafr is one of these.

Jafr is the science of foretelling what is likely to happen in the future. One of the methods employed by people who engage in this is to compare symbolic forms and letters' numerological values. The main difference between "abjad" and "jafr" methods is that the former refers to what has already taken place and the latter to what is likely to take place in the future.

This method of calculation is a form of writing which goes back several centuries and which was widely used before the revelation of the Qur'an. Everything which happened in Arab history was written down by attributing numerical values to letters thus the date of every event was recorded. These dates were obtained by adding up the particular numerical values of every letter employed.

When certain verses of the Qur'an are examined in the light of the "abjad" method, we see that a number of dates emerge which are fully in accordance with the meanings of those verses. When we see that things referred to in these verses actually happened on the dates obtained by this method, we understand that there is a secret indication regarding those events in the verses. (Allah knows best.)

The Arabic word "inshaqqa" (split) used in the above verse is derived from the word "shaqqa," which can also be used to mean "causing something to rise, ploughing or digging the soil":

As we can see, the word "shaqqa" in the above verse is not being used in the sense of "dividing into two" but of "slicing through the soil, reaping various crops." When evaluated in this sense, the meaning of the word "shaqqa" in the expression "the moon has split" (Qur'an, 54:1) can also be seen to be referring to the 1969 moon landing and the studies performed on the moon land. (Allah knows best.) In fact, there is another very important indication here: Some of the "abjad" values of certain words in this verse in Surat al-Qamar also point to the figure 1969.

One important point which needs to be stressed in this method of calculation is the likelihood of producing very large or irrelevant numbers. Despite the probability of a relevant number emerging being exceedingly small, it is striking that such a clear figure should result.

In 1969, American astronauts carried out research on the Moon, dug the soil up with various pieces of equipment, split it and carried specimens back to Earth.

We must, however, make it clear that the splitting of the Moon is of course one of the miracles given to our Prophet (saas) by Allah. This miracle is revealed thus in a hadith:

The people of Mecca asked Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle. So he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram' mountain. (Sahih Bukhari)

The above miracle is the splitting of the Moon revealed in the verse. However, since the Qur'an is a Book that addresses all times, one may think of this verse as referring to the exploration of the Moon in our own day. (Allah knows best.)

So how did Allah know that Neil Armstrong was going to land on the Moon in 1969. Please dont raise the issue of coincidence, or explicitness. Simply, even coincidences has a value and Quran has far too many miracles that you cannot ever say that they are coincidences.

Also, according a critical Thinker, James Cracknell (UK), another miraclewhich is far too good to be true was discovered. You clearly know the 9/11 incident and according to the Quran, on the 9th Chapter, 11th Verse it says,

"As we sent our punishment during the day, the townspeople were unnoticeably playing" (Surah 7, 98) (chapter 9, 11)

And the definition of the surah title "Al- Araf" is THE HEIGHTS or WALL OF ELEVATION.

If you analyse this in a enhanced way, you can conclude that while a serious punishment was sent during daytime (3:00 pm), people in the twin towers were gambling and exchanging trades and shares ( a form of game : implicitly).

Is this enough for you to be convinced, please the Quran has no errors as it is the word of God, and it is just us humans who are full of errors. Our mind is a contraversial feature that is far too complex and it secludes us into many tricks and treasuries. It is a law of Pete Norfolk that " Whatever a human mind conceils and believes, it can achieve." So if finding flaws is what you want from the Quran, then you will always find flaws. Same way if you want to find miracles you will always find miracles. But clearly the miracles can easily outnumber the false assumptions.

So my brother please be kind to my religion and do not wihtout full evidence make criticisms about my religion.

Sorry if i had said anything harsh, which is a lot, it was just that I was too stunned at your humour.

Your above threat to kill somebody you even do not know tells me that you are an al-Qaeda terrorist living in the US in disguise of a foreign student. The belief system of Quran existing in you matches the belief system of al-Qaeda terrorists. Only a true Islamic terrorist can have such blind belief in the Qurana man made book having unlimited errors and contradictions in science, history, ethics, laws, philosophy, etc. In the post 9/11 periodAmerica can not have the pleasure of keeping such killer terrorist like you in the soil of America. Therefore, I have immediately given your name, email address and Harvard address to FBI and other US intelligence. You are under very high powered microscope now. Hopefully, your days of sending threatening messages will be over soon.

By saying that Quran said about 9/11 you are admitting and supporting 9/11s horrendous terrorism. Therefore you should be arrested as soon as possible.

Quran foretold human landing in the moon is utter nonsense and your wishful dream only. Could you tell me why Allah has chosen some kaffirs to land in the Moon? Why could not He give Muslims (some mullahs) that opportunity to land in the Moon?

You did not mention one single comment of mine which is wrong or how it was wrong. How could you make such a nonsensical comments about my write ups? If you call somebody mad you must give reasons why you are calling him mad, isnt it? I urge you to give me just one thing that I committed an error.

Your ludicrous explanations of Quranic number games to prove Quranic miracles are utter nonsense and mere expression of islamists desperately idiotic quest only to fool people. These number games in Quran are pure and unadulterated hogwash. These are your voodoo miracles. Only some retarded brains can wishfully discover this nonsense and if you want, you can discover such nonsense from any ordinary book. Your quest to prove voodoo miracles in Koran can be compared with this parable I am going to narrate below for you:

One day a gullible man asked one drunk man about the shape of the earth, shape of the universe, and creation of our universe! The drunken man remained silent but he suddenly took his bottle of whisky out of his pocket and drank all of it. Then he dropped the empty bottle over the street which was rolling down hill to the slippery ground down to the corner of the street. Then the drunken man shouted at the man very loudly and disappeared.

Here are the findings: The drunken mans emptied bottle indicated the universe originated from the space, rolling bottle indicated earth is round and everything in the universe are rolling continuously, shouting indicated the big-bang theory, bottle ended in the corner indicated doomsday. Do you see how much miracle one can extract from this behavior of a drunken mad man? Your finding of miracles in Koran is sillier than this parable.

When I sent your number games to some of my friendsthis is what one of them said:

Agreeing that the Quran is full of 19, can we ask this Harvard Professor how this number help mankind or does any good to humanity? How is this number going to change the conduct of the Muslims? How is this number going to impact the world? Is this number going to increase Muslims' worth and productivity?

You have intentionally distorted Quranic verses (51:47 and 54:1) only to suit your ludicrous claim. For this Quranic distortion only, some Mullahs may tempt to kill you by stoning. Here are the English translations of these two verses by Maulana Yusuf Ali.

54:47With power and skill did we construct the firmament for it is We Who create the vastness of space.

Where did you find here We are steadily expanding? Verse is saying about vastness of the space. This vastness of space is seen by bare eyes and even a cave man can say that space is a vast open area. Does it take a divine God to tell this?

Who told you split means to cultivate or digging soil? Are you out of your mind? Is that what Harvard University has taught you? Split or asunder means to separate or divide some object end to end into two different parts. Allah will burn you in the hell fire for this clear distortion of Quran.

Your excuse of so called allegory is simply nonsense. Please tell me here which one is allegory and why? Here you go:

Q. 2:193- Fight them on until there is no more tumult and religion becomes that of Allah

Q. 8:12- I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Mr. Zubair could you tell us which one is allegory and which one is not allegory among the above a few verses? Give reasons why you call it allegory.

You love to play number games? Okay, here are some mathematical errors in the Quran.

Quran-4:11-12 and 4:176 state the Qur'anic inheritance law. When a man dies, and is leaving behind three daughters, his two parents and his wife, they will receive the respective shares of 2/3 for the 3 daughters together, 1/3 for the parents together [both according to verse 4:11] and 1/8 for the wife [4:12] which adds up to more than the available estate. A second example: A man leaves only his mother, his wife and two sisters, then they receive 1/3 [mother, 4:11], 1/4 [wife, 4:12] and 2/3 [the two sisters, 4:176], which again adds up to 15/12 of the available property.

In these verses above one can see the total property after adding all distributed parties adds up more than the available property, i.e., totals become more than 1 which are: 1.125 and 1.25. How come? A gross mathematical errors, is'nt it?

Quran-22:47: Verily a day in the sight of the Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.

Quran-32:5: To Him, on a Day, the space whereof will be a thousands years of your rekoning

Quran-70:4: The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a day the measure whereof is Fifty thousands years. So, which one is it ? Is the day of Allah equal to 1,000 earth years or 50,000 earth years?

Quran-23:14: Then fashioned We the drop (semen) a CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD then fashioned We the clot a little lump (fetus), fashioned We the little lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators.

(Bengali translations of the Quran read: Jamaat Raokto thaykay Manoosh baniecchi And this Ayat has been repeated again and again throughout the Quran)

A blood clot can not grow into anything. This idea came from the Greeks. Aristotle erroneously believed that humans are originated from the action of male semen upon female menstrual blood, which is absolutely an incorrect assumption. The Qurans assertion on the clot (alaqa) is completely wrong about human development, since there is absolutely no stage during which the embryo consists of a clot. The only situation in which an embryo might appear like a clot is during a miscarriage, in which case the clotted blood which is seen to emerge (much of which comes from the mother) is solidified and by definition no longer alive. Therefore, if ever an embryo appeared to look like a clot it would never develop any further into a human; it would be a dead mass of bloody miscarriage. Since Prophet Muhammad had some thirteen wives it is entirely possible that he would be very familiar with miscarriages.

Modern science tells us that the formation of human embryo is a seamless continuation from conception to the birth; hence there are no hard-and-fast boundaries of stages as the Quran described. The Quran described 4 stages which match exactly with Galenic description of the development of the human embryo (which was proved wrong by modern science).

Creation of bones and clothing of bones with flesh: According to modern embryologists including Prof. Moore of Canada, the tissue from which bone originates, known as mesoderm, is the same tissue as that from which muscle (flesh) develops. Thus bone and muscles begin to develop simultaneously, rather than sequentially (as the Quran tells us). Moreover, most of the muscle tissue that we human have is laid down before birth, but bones continue to develop and calcify (strengthened with calcium) right into ones teenage years. So it would be more accurate if the Quran had said that muscles started to develop at the same time as bones, but completed their development earlier. The idea that bones are clothed with flesh is not only scientifically completely wrong/false, but was directly copied from the ancient Greek doctor Galens hypothesis. The link is relevant, I suggest you to go through the text if you have the time http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/greek/greek_galen.html

Also, the idea of saying: made into bones and clothed the bones with muscle came from the technique of making animal statues out of rod and cement or mud. People usually make the skeleton (out of rod or stick) first and, then cover it up with cement or mud. This is scarcely a scientific description of embryonic development. It is rather a description of a layman. Please tell me how could a creator do this mistake?

1. Why Muslims always need some certifications from some western infidels about Prophet Muhammad?

2. What is the definition of Merciful and Compassionate? Please tell me why you call Allah and Muhammad Merciful and Compassionate? How come any killer could be called Merciful or compassionate? Do you know that Prophet Muhammad killed human being himself and he got many of his enemies assassinated secretly?

3. Please tell me who is actually Allah? Is not the pagan God Habul is actually called Allah? Why did Muhammad take pagan God Habul and called him Allah the creator? Please give me at least one strong/incontrovertible/valid point why people should consider Allah as the creator of this universe!

4. Could you please give me some proofs that that Pagan God Allah is the real creator?

5. Finally, please tell me if you think that any divine God will ever ask human to kill another human?

8. You are claiming that you are physicist from Harvard University. Could you tell me what physics did you learn from your Quran?

Quran was written by man, everything in Quran was copied from other religions and some great Arab poets helped him formulate this ridiculous Kitab called Quran. People like you are just stupid to believe it as the divine book, even though you can not show me even one single verse which could be taken as divine. Quran was copied from the poetry of famous Arab poet named Zyad and other Arab poets. Thanks.

You know let me tell you something, you make me laugh from head to toes, thinking I am a terrorist!! Thats a good one bro. You are smart arent you. Let me tell you something, you are even more guiltier for disgracing a religion, so whos in trouble.

And also, the only reason why you disagree with the Quran is cos, it is stated in the Quran that If you examine Islam, you will come to conclusion that it is a false religion.

Why don't we agree to something, you can keep your beliefs to yourself, and I will keep my beliefs to myself. That is a moral thing to do.

Now, I am really sorry if I sad anything wrong, the only reason I said things earlier on was cos I am a really religious 12 year old, and it really pissed me off to see people cus my religion thats y I disguised as an adult, so you will hear my message.

Listen, if you want to believe that I AM A TERRORIST thats you. You can go tell all the agencies but in the end it will be you who is in trouble, cos you cant use a mere email message to suspect some1.

Do you even know where I live, besides I am a flippin 12 year old who is living in Sri Lanka. Do you really want to be behind bars for giving false evidence, you idiot. When they discover my true identity, they will arrest you not me.

[This so called Harvard Professor was a fake and deceitful individual who is obviously a pathological liar. He never replied me any further.]

Debate between SKM and Harvard Islamist