Women in Hinduism

by Abul Kasem

02 Jan, 2001

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Abul Kasem is an Bengali ex-Muslim and academic. He has contributed in Leaving Islam - Apostates Speak Out and Beyond Jihad - Critical Voices from Inside and Why We Left Islam.. He has also written extensively on Islam in various websites and is the author of five e-Books: A Complete Guide to Allah, Root of Terrorism ala Islamic Style, Sex and Sexuality in Islam, Who Authored the Quran? and Women in Islam. Mr. Kasem leaves in Sydney, Australia. He can be contacted at abul88@hotmail.com.

Name: We will have a healthy debate on this issue
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 00:43:26 -0500

Comment

First of all where are the references who has translated these verses of vedas are missing, please quote the links, books, author. I think mr qasam neither you know sanskrit nor have gained the spiritual enlightment in samadhi, so it is somebodys interpretation. I will give you interpretation with mantras. But it will take time. Please wait.

Name: jenn
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 00:44:54 -0500

Comment

Abul kasem i admire your courage for exposing another cult Hinduism which denegrades women. As a western woman who converted to islam and was brave enough to escape it , i say that Hinduism is equally responsible for crimes against Hindu women. Both these rubbish cults islam and hinduism must be exposed and i once again admire you for been so honest. well done abul

Name: >>Provide us with link..
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 01:02:09 -0500

Comment

I have the book but not able to get this information. Any body can provide the source of the above stated translation....

Name: devi. rani.
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 01:13:04 -0500

Comment

Fantastic !fantastic ...............i cant explain . i also admire you.

Name: agnostic
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 01:19:00 -0500

Comment

Each and every religion, on close scrutiny, will reveal some negative aspects. However, discussing and debating them on this site will dilute the focus of this site, and give a false alibi to Muslims. No matter what the shortcomings of other religions, none of them, except Islam, teaches hatred and violence against adherent of other religions.

Name: Abul Kasem
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 01:40:36 -0500

Comment

As the editor of IW has mentioned this article is quite old, perhaps around eight years. If I have to write this article today, it will be more pungent, its content will be totally unpalatable to civilized people. Since penning this article I lost interest in Hinduism, because I was more concerned about Islam and its savagery. Therefore, I decided to specialize in Islam. Please visit this site for many verses quoted here. http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/index.htm Please note that this site has deliberately excised many indecent, pornographic, and uncivil verses, especially verses referring to a woman having sex with animals (horse, especially), incest...etc. Some translations are quoted with dots.... For a complete reference please contact a good Hindu library or a Hindu organisation to read the original translations. In case this is not possible, you may have to buy the books (especially the Vedas) from India or wherever they are available. Thanks to those readers who still have some respect for the dignity of women. In my experience, I have noted that all religion, without exception is misogyny.

Name: To JENN
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 01:45:09 -0500

Comment

Hindu are peaceful so as if they follow the vedhas. Now many hindu do not follow vedha script. that is the why many hindu are getting mislead. but the "Jews" are, after all a captive a army for the last 3000 years and boys have they suffered? and so have Hindus, Christians, Muslims Jains, Sikhs and Buddhists along with everyone else. But they would have to see what has been done to them and reject it. Not one single "Jew" I have come across will denounce the Talmud's hatred. They never condone what happening in Palestine. What I am trying to expose is the hate that is being wielded upon the whole World. That in itself is not hating, it is opposing hate. Generally those who call people who expose this material haters are those who wish to hide Jewish supremacism from the World. Their law WILL be used to subjugate everyone and they will reduce World population to below 500 million. And there will be no rapture. Maybe the elite going into underground bases to escape a global cull, but no rapture. They wrote that for you.

Name: Satan has many branches of his corporation.
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 02:01:20 -0500

Comment

Islam is a violent form of satanic religion while Hinduism is a mild form of satanic religion. Satan has many branches of his corporation doing business on earth in different fields from religion to education to mislead the unwary.

Name: Ilham Abdullah (ex-muslim)
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 02:48:03 -0500

Comment

Interesting article. It is my opinion that Islam is the worst of all the worlds major religions devised by man. Worse than Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Christianity, Etc. Though all have doctrinal falsehoods and other accompanying problems, Islam is the worst of the lot. Islam has destroyed the lives of innumerable good people. Mohammed was not the messenger of God. The Quran is not the word of God. Islams fundamental claims are untrue. Despite it's claims, Islam prevents peace and the appropriate development of mankind. Islam ultimately leaves men alone in a state of ignorance indifferent to truth. It is tragic so many good people are deceived by this fraudulent religion.

Name: vbv
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 03:13:14 -0500

Comment

Aha! There you are making your own translation!Rigveda 10.18.8 actually reads "Rise ,come unto the world of life,O woman: come ,he is lifeless by whose side thou liest; Wifehood with this thy husband was thy portion,who took thy hand and woed thee as a lover" You have made up your own Rigveda . Again you have quoted a supposed vrse from Athrva Veda20.96.15.There is nothing like what you have stated. I will quote for you the same Atharva Veda 20.96.15 :- "What rests by thee in borrowed form of brother,lover,or of lord,And would destroy the progeny,- even this we will exterminate." This is a far cry from your made up verses of your supposed Vedas, there is no limit to your concoctions! The translations I have given is from Ralph Griffth's translations of Rig Veda and Atharva Veda. Ralph Griffith was not a Hindu but a British Indologists of repute who lived in the later part of 19th century. Further Hinduism is not a monolithic system of belief like the semetic cults where you are an enemy fit to be butchered if you are not one of them. The practice of Sati came about due to muslim conquest and the resultant raping spree by the lecherous muslims. Even then it was only confined to a few areas in Northern part of India. No sati was practiced in any other part of the country even during muslim rule. This is rampant with the rajputs only . Today you don't find this ,except in a rare case in some backward area. Asfor dowry and bride burning ,this is not ordained by hindu religion or culture but by human greed to get easy money. Even this is not very common ,but rare. I can agree only with castism being the real malady of Indian culture. However there are strict laws against this in force making it a nonbailable offence. This is guaranteed by constitution. What about blacks in USA (despite Obama) Canada, Europe? The Europeans practice some form of apartheid even today. History has proof that christians abducted and herded blacks from Africa in slavery ,as approved by your Bible. Islam is notorious that practices slavery even today - the Asian women,especially South Asian women are lured with an offer of lucrative job as domestics and then treated in the most inhuman manner ,sexually assaulted,raped,not paid the promised wages, and many a time not paid anything at all , the arabs come to India to "marry" young girls of 9 - 13 years of age just to take them as slaves in their own country. Can anything be worse and immoral than that! Look into your own black hearts rather than concoct verses that are nonexisting in the Vedas!

Name: ab
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 03:14:49 -0500

Comment

I am no authority on the Vedas or Hinduism. But before I get into specifics, let me say that the Hindu scriptures comprising the Vedas, Upanishads and the Gita laid different rules for different sects of people according to the caste they were born in and the yuga they were living in as well. The scriptures have to be studied in its entirety before you can really comment upon it. In order to understand the scriptures in its proper sense, a great many commentaries as well as commentaries on them (sub-commentaries) have been written over a period of time by great men. One needs to understand all before you can comment on them. Due to the flexibility offered in the scriptures, Vedic India saw great prosperity and peace in contrast to the chaos, hatred and violence prevailing now where people are on the path of adharma. Hinduism is the only religion where women were treated with the greatest respect, where women were idolised as Devi, where women competed with men in knowledge, administration, warfare and every other aspect of life. Please visit this website http://www.hinduwisdom.info/index_new.htm which is the creation of a woman and click on the menu ???Women in Hinduism??? which will give you a detailed account of the status of women in Vedic India. I have no arguments about the plight of women in modern day India that has to improve a lot. But you can see that if women power, which was at its pinnacle during ancient times, has progressively worsened with time it is probably due to lot of other factors and the scriptures have absolutely got nothing to do with the decline. Getting into specifics, let us take Option no.1 (ie) the widow has to marry the husband???s younger brother. I suggest you should research more into this because as far as what I understand this rule was applicable to the Kshatriya clan during the Vedic times. This was also applicable only when the king dies without an heir to the throne and the younger brother marries the king???s wife with the aim of begetting a son for the throne. This rule is not to be applied in Kaliyuga (our present yuga) as per the following verse in the scriptures. Asvalambham gavalambham sanyasam palapatrikam Devarena sutotpattim kalau panca vivarjayet The meaning of the above verse is animal sacrifices, meat in sraddha ceremonies and begetting a son by the husband???s brother are not permitted in the age of Kali. You may ask why these were permitted then. The Vedic times were possibly the most glorious of all eras including the Roman, Greek, Islamic or the Christian eras. The power of spirituality and austerities was so high and people were always seeking union with the One Truth that certain things were permitted but the same scriptures foresaw a decline in the spiritual and moral strength of the people in these present times and hence banned these. Isn???t this unique to Hinduism which one should appreciate? it is quite true that there are rules as to how widows should lead their lives but you should be aware that there are rules for widowers as well. For example, a widower loses his right to perform pujas and sacrifices the moment he loses his wife (Patnivatasya agnihotram bhavati). Women are looked these days as objects of sensual pleasure, whereas our Vedas call the wife ???saha-dharma-carini???, thus underlying her connection with Dharma. We should look at both sides and not twist facts as to say that the Vedas say this about widows just because women???s plight is pathetic today. The cure for a headache is not in cutting the head but trying to find a solution for the headache. I quote below from the same website what is said about the glory of women. This concept of the spiritual equality of souls naturally influenced the status of women on an individual and social level. "Where women are honored there the gods are pleased; but where they are not honored no sacred rite yields rewards," declares Manu Smriti (III.56) a text on social conduct. "Women must be honored and adorned by their fathers, brothers, husbands and brothers-in-law, who desire their own welfare." (Manu Smriti III, 55) " Where the female relations live in grief, the family soon wholly perishes; but that family where they are not unhappy ever prospers." (Manu Smriti III, 57). "The houses on which female relations, not being duly honored, pronounce a curse perish completely as if destroyed by magic." (Manu Smriti III, 58) " Hence men who seek their own welfare, should always honor women on holidays and festivals with gifts of ornaments, clothes, and dainty food." (Manu Smriti III, 59) In an old Shakta hymn it is said - Striyah devah, Striyah pranah "Women are Devas, women are life itself." (source: Bharata Shakti - By Sir John Woodroffe p. 95). "If a husband dies, a wife may marry another husband. "If a husband deserts his wife, she may marry another." (Manu, chapter IX, verse 77). (source: Hindu Superiority - By Har Bilas Sarda p. 95). In the Vedas, she is invited into the family 'as a river enters the sea' and 'to rule there along with her husband, as a queen, over the other members of the family. (Source: Atharva Veda xiv. i. 43-44). Regarding Sati, there is absolutely no sanction for it in the Vedas. During Vedic times there were chaste women who unable to bear the pangs of separation committed Sati voluntarily. Just read the following verse and understand yourself. "If a husband dies, a wife may marry another husband. "If a husband deserts his wife, she may marry another." (Manu, chapter IX, verse 77). (source: Hindu Superiority - By Har Bilas Sarda p. 95). Please visit this website which is an extensive resource about Hinduism. http://www.hinduwisdom.info/index_new.htm Regarding your quotes from the Vedas regarding women, I don't think it can be true though I am no authority on the Vedas. I will get these clarified from experts and come back on this.

Name: sat-chit-ananda
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 03:37:21 -0500

Comment

There are a great many fantastic tales in the Puranas, Vedas etc, and many of them are symbolic and not literal. I'm sure there must have been imperfections in the social customs in ancient India, as there are imperfections in all societies even today. As regards the factual correctness of this article I will not comment since one can't be bothered to go digging up the references and various commentaries thereon. But this is nothing to do with "core Hinduism", which consists of the "Yoga Sutras" of Patanjali, the Advaita doctrine of Adi Shankara, and the philosphical principles expounded in the Bhagavad Gita. It would be best for Islam-watch to stick to Islam - its core focus.

Name: Good work
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 03:38:18 -0500

Comment

All religions were created by men to fulfil the evil desires. Please whack all the religions which does not share the current human decency

Name: To Abul Kasem
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 03:44:12 -0500

Comment

How can you say that many verses were removed from that site? I crosschecked many references u have provided and many (90%) of them don't exist at all. Now you say they have removed such references. I am sure you are lying here. If someone is a genuine translator, NO MATTER WHAT THE CONTENT IS, he/she will still present it AS IT IS. There are many missionary organizations that twist verses and distribute them. Coming to some references provided by you: Atharva veda (6/11/3) states "The father sows the genial seed, the woman tends and fosters it. This is the finding of a son: thus hath Prajāpati declared" see the link here www.sacred-texts.com/hin/av/av06011.htm ; Rig veda 8/33/17 states "The mind of a crooked woman is not stable and hence she cannot be trusted". Look how you have translated. There are only 6 verses in Atharva veda (2/3). I don't know how you found verse 23 in that chapter. Rig veda 10/95/15 states "There cannot be lasting friendship with some evil-minded women for such women have hearts of hyenas". This a general caution against some bad women in society. Look how you have translated. The so called incest b/w father n daughter in Atharva veda 20/96/15 is ur hallucination. See the link provided by urself (http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/av/av20096.htm There is nothing like that mentioned there. Most of the translations are either wrong or totally bastardi$ed. Rig veda 10/18/8 from the same website states "Rise, come unto the world of life, O woman: come, he is lifeless by whose side thou liest.Wifehood with this thy husband was thy portion, who took thy hand and wooed thee as a lover". Here, in the context a saintly person is informing that her husband is dead and there is no soul in his body and hence she should not grieve. As her karma of spending her life with her husband is over, his soul is preparing for its next journey while she has to console herself. Dude Kasem, I dont know why you are twisting verses to suit ur needs. Most of the verses are like that (see the link u provided). No author will change the meanings of such verses. It shows your communist agenda. BTW Bengalis are influenced by communism. A total rebuttal to this article will be published soon. Janani janmabhoomishcha swargadapi gariyasi-- mother and motherland are greater than heaven yatra nari pujyati tatra devaapi ramyante-- whereever woman is respected there gods reside

Name: Concerned
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 03:46:41 -0500

Comment

AK has done a good job of putting things in proper perspective. You can see it is hurting some presumptive characters. You can see them going into the denial mode. Of course, the Vedas and the Puranas predate Islam by millennia. So tribal and primeval practices which are horrendous by modern standards can be noticed in them. That should not surprise anybody. I pity those who have to defend them. It only shows how futile it is to parade ones beliefs as sacrosanct and rubbish every other belief system. But Islam is a threat to human civilization as it has an agenda to foist its inhuman ideology on the whole mankind. Lets all join to fight it.

Name: sat-chit-ananda
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 03:53:42 -0500

Comment

Judging from the comments, it appears that there are inaccuracies in this article. Islam-Watch should stick to its core anti-Islam mission. But now that this article has been published, I hope the editors will allow a rebuttal to be published also, perhaps by the author of the comment Name: To Abul Kasem Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009 Time: 03:44:12 -0500

Name: Ibrahim
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 04:06:43 -0500

Comment

First of all there is no reason for people to get angry on what kasem has written. If you feel he is telling lies, all you have to do is to refute him, you can visit www.lulu.com and publish your rebuttal. In any case I am not bothered with what the Aryans used to do 5000 years back. They are my ancestors and I dont feel the need to be apologetic for what they did such a long time back. The Indian society is evolving every day. The Vedas and Puranas exist only in Libraries and are consulted only by the scholars. No Hindu to my knowlege lives his life according to what is written in these books. Futhermore if Kasem says that he can write an article which wil be unpalatable to civilized people then I think he should write one. Let him not judge the moralities of others. Let him write what he wishes to, if some does not like what he writes then that is not his problem. Why this self imposed censorship?

Name: explanations from vedas
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 04:21:28 -0500

Comment

first i would like to explain their are thousands of people who write every day meaning of vedic mantras , their are foreign authors like max muller etc, many professor of oxford, harvard etc. however who are authorised first i would like to state that A person should traditionally learn it from a mantra drista rishi and a samadhist yogi, means one who has traditinally not only learnt it from a samadhist yogi, but himself has seen this knowledge in samadhai is alone entitled to teach this and talk of this. I would in this regard say swami dayanad Saraswatiu was the one, after him second one i have met is my Guru Swami ramswarup ji.A person at the last stage of samadhi controls five perceptions,five senses and five indriyan and in nirvikalpa samadhi see himself vedas thats why he is called mantradristha.Now i request you to read authentic interpretation with explanations from vedas on niyog and women, it is lengthy but important to shed the truth on the matter rest of the mantras quoted by you i will quote with mantras and its meaning later. An act is considered illegal, illicit and immoral when it is to be hidden from society, parents spouses etc. For Niyog the consent of husband , wife, family mambers are to be taken, the person is chosen who himself has control over senses.Person when do not have control over senses can do havoc, so in present day number of atrocities on women has gone up .There is a great difference between marriage and above quoted relation of Niyog. In marriage, the girl/bride has to leave her father???s home and she does not further maintain her relation with her parents. The girl then forever remains in her husband???s house and goes to her parents ocassionally. In niyog, widow gets her children through niyog but remains always in her husband???s house, who has gone to heavenly abode or alive. According to Vedas remarriage is not permitted for a widow. In this connection please refer Rigveda mantra 10/40/2. The lady if is capable to maintain brahamcharya then only the problem ends otherwise property dispute, destruction of morality which requires to maintain pativrat dharma takes place. Yet if a widow is interested to get children then Rigveda mantra 10/85/45 allows her to get child by adopting niyog from widower or married person. But in my view procedure for a widow to get child will not be fruitful in these days where the eternal knowledge of four Vedas is not being adopted in life. The said procedure was in practice during the previous three yugas. For example- after the death of their husbands, Ambika, and Ambalika got children. They were all maintaining brahamcharya and adopting eternal knowledge and moral duties of Vedas, they knew that as soon as the widow gets pregnancy the relationship has to be broken forever and the child would get the name of his deceased father and not the present father. Rigveda mantra 10/95/15- (PURURAVAHA) He who gives order to number of army troops under him i.e., commander of army/king (Ma) not (MRITAHA) meet with death. Meaning/Idea- Oh! King do not meet with death uselessly. (MA) not (PRA PAPTAHA) fall in a pit. Meaning/Idea- Do not meet with downfall in your life. (VRIKASAHA) wolves (MA) not (TVA) you (ASHEEVASAHA) unauspicious/not beneficial (U KSHANN) definitely eat away. Meaning/Idea- Oh! king, the unauspicious wolves may not definitely eat you away. (STRAINNANI) with regards to lady (SAKHYANI) friendly connection i.e., worldly love (NA VAI) never (SANTI) permanently established i.e., are not auspicious. Meaning/idea: Relations with lady based on worldly love only are never established permanently i.e., are never auspicious. (ETA) the said relations (HRIDYANI) are like a cruel heart (SALA VRIKANNAM) of wolves who attack forcefully. Idea: The idea of the mantra is that when a man becomes sensuous and makes contact with several ladies or makes several sexual contacts with his wife even then he loses his mental as well as physical power and meets with early death uselessly. Even in some cases, he commits suicide. Some people go to the jungles where they commit suicide and their body flesh is eaten away by wild animals like wolves etc. So, the mantra warns against the sexual attachment with ladies and maintains Brahamcharya stage in family life like several Rishi-Munis, Shri Ram, Shri Krishna Maharaj etc. Mahabharat clearly states that Satyawati had two sons- Chitrangad and Vichitraveerya. One of his son was actually sensuous who met with early death due to fatal diseases. In the present world also, There are several cases of such instances. God does not allow the lady to be seen with bad intention mainly sexual. Physical charms never make everlasting love/relations. It is only a love which based on soul and the said love is everlasting. The sexual relation is like an attack of cruel wolves who eat the flesh of his hunt cruelly and immediately. Thus, the uncontrolled sexual relation with lady/ladies attack the body of man to eat it badly and immediately. One should have a vedic target of family life to increase pure love and to get only children and not mere sexual pleasure. Atharvaveda mantra 6/11/3: This mantra relates to women. (PRAJAPATIHI) Protector of public (ANUMATIHI) who is follower of the thought of husband. (SEENIVALI) who has the plenty of food grains and the best use there of (ACHEEKLRIPT) capable/powerful. Idea is that the woman who has the said quality, Prajapati, Anumati and Seenivali becomes self-sufficient, capable, powerful to carry out moral duties and to give birth to the intelligent babies. (STRAISHUYAM) the said woman for giving birth to baby and (ANYATR) keeping the baby at different places, (U) i.e., (Ukar word of hindi devnagari) definitely (IHA) here i.e., in this world (PUMANSAM DADHAT) gives birth to brave male baby. Meaning/Idea of the mantra: It has been eternal tendency in the world to obtain brave male babies for the protection of the nation. Yajurveda mantra 22/22 too states to get male member also in the shape of Brahmin who knows Vedas and yoga philosophy to educate the nation well, Kshatriya to protect the nation well and the vaishya/Mahajan to have control and well distribution on every needful item of the household i.e., their business must suits the nation. Similarly in the mantra, it is stated that brave women must be there to help their husbands. The said Yajurveda mantra states that PURANDHIHI YOSHA i.e., the learned women must also take birth in the nation who are capable to hold several public i.e., to nurse several public well in the nation. The society must be learned to think deeply on the above quoted Atharvaveda mantra also that who gives birth to brave sons. Definitely a woman having qualities quoted in the mantra gives birth and then only nation is protected well. So we should never have any bad thought against girl/woman. Otherwise it would be a great sin and God punishes. Sorry for it to be lengthy but we should learn truth whether we like it or not. Further Dev dasi pratha and dasi pratha was against vedas as every time vedas stress on control of senses through brahmacharya (both pre and post marriage) for both men and women .But yes it was present post mahabharat period, girls were married to idols.However it is against vedas.Rest is upto people whether to follow it or not. Similarly vedas say human beings to follow Ek patni vrat dharam, i.e only one wife, however i have seen in places especially when i was serving in visakhapatnam polygamy(more than one wife) was prevalent in local people both educated and uneducated, it is not supported by vedas atleast.Further, Arjuna in mahabharat had four wives whereas Yudhisthir only one.It was purely persons wish.Bhishma pitamaha was naisthiik brahmachari.Vedas clearly say rules for humans, there is not even mention of word hindu in it, it says man/women are free to do deeds but result is in hand of God.There is always a thin line of abuse.However i consider only great yogis only to be the real follower of vedas . In the society it is quite possible on the name of Niyog, position and dignity of women must have been miused, at times it must have been forced upon her against her wishes especially post mahabharat war, on the name of vedas, still it must must be happening.But scriptures does not suggest that.But i accept Dowry system is like a curse in india, still women are not treated fairly.But as a Hindu, i am a women, i am an engineer , served in military . My sister is equally qualified.I have married out of my choice to my spouse who is Keralite and they follow matriarchal system.One thing i must admit at times women herself is the greatest enemy of another women. My mother-in-law has not accepted me till now, so its our view, opinion, sense of differentiation which binds us not religious dogmas.At times it is difficult to change others untill enlightment happens it is same every where, becos differentiation is created by man not God.

Name: To:Mr.Abul Kasem
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 05:05:19 -0500

Comment

What you have quoted above was written thousands of years ago. Todays's hinduism has outgrown this. Today anybody who does not follow any religion is a hindu, whether he is montheistic,atheistic or anything. Nobody can issue fatwas to you in Hinduism or nobody can threaten to kill you. That is the basic difference between Islam and Hinduism.

Name: Ibrahim
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 05:06:40 -0500

Comment

To all my Indian my Indian friends, kidly abstain from spaming the comments section. It costs a lot of money to maintain a website, and adding lenghty comments merely create problems for the Editor who is already facing a finacial crunch. Make a rebuttal to the above article if you feel that Kasem is misinterpreting or has the inability to understand the meanings of the texts.

Name: Abul Kasem
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 05:12:41 -0500

Comment

For simplicity, some verses have been written in plain english and shortened (similar to what I do for the Qur'anic verses). For example: "Almighty God, you have created this womb. Women may be born somewhere else but sons should be born from this womb" [Atharva Veda 6/11/3] The full translation by Ralph T. H. Griffith says:Atharva Veda book 6, hymn 11, line 3: The father sows the genial seed, the woman tends and fosters it. This is the finding of a son: thus hath Prajāpati declared. 3Prajāpati, Anumati, Sinivāli have ordered it. Elsewhere may he effect the birth of maids, but here prepare a boy. Please verify :http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/av/av06011.htm This does not change the central meanining, which is that a boy is preferable to a girl. In a few places the hymn numbers might differ from the print version. But the content remains the same. Please visit the sacred text web site, it might take some time to find and match the hymn numbers. Sorry, I do not have the time to quote all the hymns.If you want further information please contact the publisher of vedas: Low Priced publications, A-6 Nimri Commercial Centre, Near Ashok Vihar Phase-IV, Delhi 110052, India. Phone 217401672, 27452453. email: lpp@nde.vsnl.net.in. url: www.lppindia.com Please do not blame me if any of the above links do not work. As I mentioned previously, I wrote this essay more than eight years ago. I cannot readily recall all information and links. Thanks to the readers who took the trouble to verify the web site. If you do not believe me that the sacred text web site has expunged many obnoxious hymns, please get the printed version of the Vedas and check for yourselves. Unfortunately, I cannot do this for you. Abul Kasem

Name: Ilham Abdullah (ex-muslim)
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 05:19:20 -0500

Comment

Some turn to Islam for the following reasons: Answers to the questions raised by our existence; The fear generated by Islams threats; The desire to acquire the rewards Islam claims it delivers in both this life and apon death; The comforts and security suppied by membership to a group; and last but not least PERSONAL IDENTITY. Islam can deliver none of the above. These are the accepted beliefs of the weak minded - Not the beliefs of the authentic human being - Not the views of the free individual. These are the "views" of the "slaves of Allah". LOL. Who knew how absurb life would become?

Name: jenn
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 06:13:33 -0500

Comment

This world will be a safer place for underaged girls if islam and Hinduism is wiped out because both these filthy cults condone and encourage pedophilia

Name: if no religion existed all humans maybe safe
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 06:32:21 -0500

Comment

if all religion did not exist maybe humanity wud be safe.

Name: vbv
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 06:36:19 -0500

Comment

To jenn: The world would be a safer place if all three cults -Islam,Christianity and Judaism- are wiped out . All three practice pedophilia,incest,rape,sodomy,etc. Take Abraham who was a sexual pervert sleeping with slavewomen he kept, or his nephew Lot who slept with his daughters to beget amobites and maobites (two trbes), Solomon was a sleazy sexpervert who would put modern porn artists to shame, or Judah in the book of Genesis who impregnated his own daughter in law after trying to get his sons to sleep with her. What about Jesus? His father was supposed to be "god" , mind that is worse than incest! Talking of incest what about Adam and Eve? They were"created" by god , and by relationship brother and sister and yet they slept and begat Caine and Abel ..... And we can go on with thjis unholy shit that goes in the name of "holiness" and "religion". Totally immoral,amoral absolute pervarsion, nothing else!

Name: vbv
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 06:37:22 -0500

Comment

To jenn: The world would be a safer place if all three cults -Islam, Christianity and Judaism- are wiped out . All three practice pedophilia, incest, rape, sodomy, etc. Take Abraham who was a sexual pervert sleeping with slavewomen he kept, or his nephew Lot who slept with his daughters to beget amobites and maobites (two trbes), Solomon was a sleazy sexpervert who would put modern porn artists to shame, or Judah in the book of Genesis who impregnated his own daughter in law after trying to get his sons to sleep with her. What about Jesus? His father was supposed to be "god" , mind that is worse than incest! Talking of incest what about Adam and Eve? They were"created" by god , and by relationship brother and sister and yet they slept and begat Caine and Abel ..... And we can go on with thjis unholy shit that goes in the name of "holiness" and "religion". Totally immoral,amoral absolute pervarsion, nothing else!

Name: jenn
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 06:54:51 -0500

Comment

To vbv, let me remind you how your lord krishna commited pedophilia with dancing girls and they were all under 10. no wonder they say that islam's Mohammad and Hinduism's krishna were both born under the same star. LOL

Name: seeker
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 07:08:29 -0500

Comment

Hindus never claim the Vedas to be the revealed word of God.What was written thousands of years BC is not relevant in these times.Today In India Hindu women are successful Doctors,lawyers,enterpreneurs,engineers, educationists etc. Their presence is noted in almost every field including the Armed forces. The government has jobs for women in all fields and sectors. As if this article was not enough the author is threatening to come up with another one.

Name: Ilham Abdullah
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 07:37:11 -0500

Comment

Islam is essentially humanities most base and desperate attempt to achieve spiritual and self-understanding. Essentially Islam is a discusting cult Mohammed and His immediate Arabian Followers created that should be abandoned by all self respecting people.

Name: balam
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 08:41:41 -0500

Comment

There is no difference between Hinuism and Islams as shown in this very well reseached article by Mr. Kasem. I never knew this ugly side of this Pagan cult called Hinduism. It is equally filthy .There is no righteousness but human concocted filth. It only preaches sex and sensulity even with animals. Hence it suits only the animals in human form. Muslims on the other hand falsely connect themselves with Judaism and Christianty because Mohammad knew about the prophets these faith. If for example, I happen to know some information about the members of the British Royal family, It does not make me a member of the Royal family. That is the logic Mohammad used to declare himself a Prophet. The sword of Islam played a major part in that.Both Hinduism and Islam are Pagan cults. Both were poly Deist but Mohammad cleverly retracted the worship of three daughters of Allah and became the founder of mono-pagan deism called Islam. Mono-theism of Judeo-Christian faith does not preach Immorality, murder, robbery and rape as preached and practiced in hinduism and Islam. I enjoyed the excellent article which exposes the fallacy of both Hinduism and Islam

Name: Ex-Muslim
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 09:06:28 -0500

Comment

The only thing Hindus need to do is to refute with clear proofs the article of Kaseem.If they can't it's there failure. But it is true that the status of Hindu women both scriptualy and also in present day are much better than Muslimahs. BELIEVE ONLY IN TRUTH.

Name: Taqiyah
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 09:21:38 -0500

Comment

To Jenn and Abul Kaseem what do you understand by Rasleela? Did you think that Krishna had Sex with the gopiyans? Please read the Srimad Bhagawantam again.Do not make speculations on others' interpretation, please. Read for yourself then you reply. Women are the finance minister in the couple.Do you think that hinduism would have permitted this if it did not look at the woman as the other half of men? In court, the woman's word is accepted above that of a man because she is considered purer and sincerer. She is considered as the light of the house and if people, with the advent of Christianity and Islam, have started treating the woman otherwise it is not the fault of Hinduism.Do you know sanskrit or did you read the writings of muslims who wrote false things to incite hindus to their realm. You want the truth about the Vedas, we have God on earth actually in Puttaparthi.Please pay him a visit or visit the official website.The truth will come out.

Name: To Abul Kaseem
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 09:43:20 -0500

Comment

Sir, I am an Indian Hindu and there is nothing wrong in what you have written,but what you fail to understand many hindus,unlike muslims, have spoken against the evils in hindiusm.Unlike Islam Hinduism is capable of reforms.I believe in what Gandhi said...he said discard the bad things in your religion and follow the good things that your religion preaches.there are a lot of stupid and evil things in hinduism, even now there are people who would like to burn a widow to death [sati].Bhagvat gita says that there should never be mixing of caste, its very bad for thew society.You gladly brought to light all these evil verses but didn't bother to add that the Indian constitution has made all laws that would help in giving equal treatment to women and in some cases these laws are even misused [the dowry law] and the people who have made these laws are Hindus

Name: Ibrahim
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 09:57:53 -0500

Comment

Jenn, don't try to take a high moral ground. Every religion in the past has imposed strict moral codes on women in the past. The women in Christian west were not so free until very recently. Infant the Victorians used to call the Arabs indecent, immoral and filthy. Today Westerners call the same women in Arabia as subdued. So please don't be a hypocrite.

Name: VP
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 10:07:10 -0500

Comment

I doubt that these are practiced now. It is an ancient and what is the meaning of Knowledge. So knowledge is both evil and good. I doubt that the ordinary Indian is going about practicing this. If India needs to change let them do it through the process that is in place. It is a young democratic nation that will take time to change and bring about its promises. However I do not find that the Christian Cult or Islamic Cult be given their aggressive supremacist agenda to promote their intolerant ideology to be a solution. They can keep theirs.

Name: Vp
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 10:27:42 -0500

Comment

Jenn is full of hate. Women in western societies were hardly better off either. It is only recently that many are allowed to vote and keep jobs. So Jenn keep your hate to yourself and the anti Hindu and anti Jain and anti Buddhist agenda to your Christian Cult.

Name: Deadly Poison
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 10:49:49 -0500

Comment

If Islam is the most potent poison designed for instantaneous death then India's native religious belief is a diluted poison designed for a slow and agonizing death. Both are Satan-inspired and succeeded in deceiving a large proportion of humanity. For Satan is the Deceiver, the ruler of this world, the Destroyer. Ephesians 2:2, " You followed the ways of this present world and its spiritual ruler. This ruler continues to work in people who refuse to obey God.", John 18:33, " So Pilate went back into the governor's headquarters, summoned Jesus, and asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" John 18:36, " Jesus answered, "My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom belonged to this world, my servants would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jews. But for now my kingdom is not from here."

Name: Abul kasim have ever read those veda books really?
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 11:10:13 -0500

Comment

Abul kasim have ever read those veda books really???I have been searching for years for original versions of those books but still i coud not find them.Vedas just known few brahmins and script is also unknown but one veda Rigveda is largely known and it is presently written devanagari script(script of Hindi language).Even the maxmuller the great german Schoolar who reasearched for entire life on vedaS could not get all of them.brahmins refused to reveal to him all.All te vedas are known from ancestral throgh oral tradition only.what you have said should have clear reference through credible books.What you have given aer completely baseless references from anauthorised persons.there was no referece that god ordered to do these nasty ways of tradtions and ther was no reference of slaves in vedas.Vadhu means bride and vara means bride groom during marriage ceremony.regarding gender discrimination that exists ,it is never mantionaed in vedas to give dowry(money to groom)it was a tradition follwed in the society as share of father's wealth to daughter in movalble asset such as gold and money.Immovable wealth is given to son as the girl ahs to go with husband after marriage.This is also not compulsion.But this has now turned to mistradtion of compulsion in some parts of india.IF this essay is itself is baseless with no credible refernece and just giving some numbers seperated (vedas mantras have no separation they are continuous in each veda)then why can't your essays on till now be fiction or baseless?

Name: RS
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 11:33:01 -0500

Comment

I am glad the debate is on. One cannot bash one faith alone as all faiths have plenty of things that are not compatible now. However I will have to say and Mr kasem would admit that hindu scriptures provide the frame work for spirituality but does not force a dogmatic view upon followers. various aspects has been debated, reformed changed over the period of many thousand years by any one who had courage to speak out the truth. jain tirthanker , buddha and later sikh gurus are the testimonial to it.

Name: Veda means knwledge(ve=unknown +da=Tobe known)
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 11:44:56 -0500

Comment

Veda means knwledge(ve=unknown +da=Tobe known).Abul kaseem has lost his intellectual credibilty.Alsina has never commented on Quron or any other book with out reading or quoting it from credible references.REgarding gender discrimination and opprtunites to women in jobs and politics ,it is global problem.Dowry is daughters share of family wealth(money and gold) given at the time of marriage and lies with her.It is also not complusion.How ever rouges and criminal minded people exist in evry society who tortue wifes with or with out reason.India is the only coutry where women are given highst value and respect.Mother is first worshipped even god comes only later.Niyogi is widow remarriage which was allowed in vedic times.your reference as animal sex is vulger and shocking.you seem to have intentionally insult by with no reference.No where in vedas or in any sacred texts it is referred.Yes ancient indians desired(not preferred) son to in addition to daugheter only for security from invaders and for family supproting in the old age.(daugter has t go to mother in laws house and take care of them)In kareal state of india do you know daughters are preferred as sons have to go to father in laws house as tradition.Insulting vedas with out knowing ,reading and understanding them is declaring elephant is like a snake just by tauching its tail and closing eyes.I ask you to read Rudolf Stiener or Max muller translation Works on indian religion.perhaps THat great german schoolar may be not intelligent like you and has taken several dacades to partially translate them into english and german.Germany has also opened Sanskrit dapartment a century ago only to understand vedas and technology in it.All the basic sciences like mathematics(decimal conting),astronomy,Mediation,medicine and architechture and many more sciences evolved from them (preferably fro Atharwa veda).Go to Any vedic research centre in australia and have brief introduction of vedas.Maharshi Mahesh yogi centre is als there.

Name: PLEASE EXPLAINE
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 12:19:06 -0500

Comment

WHY IS THAT ALL PEOPLE WHO MAKE COMMENTS ON ALL THE FORUMS ARE ALWAYS THE SAME??? YOU MUST BE SHORT OF PEOPLE WITH SOME COMMON SENSE!!

Name: TO ALL.. DONT WORRY
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 12:24:07 -0500

Comment

TO ALL MY FRIENDS WHO CANT FIND THE SOURCE WHICH ABUL KASIM IS USING..PLEASE DONT WORRY YOU CANT FIND THEM BECAUSE THERE AINT ANY!! ABUL KASIM HAS BEEN EXPOSED AS A LIER AND A CON BY SOMEONE IN HIS ARTICAL A Guide to the Quranic Contradictions, Part 3. SEE FOR YOUR SELF!!

Name: sat-chit-ananda
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 13:01:54 -0500

Comment

Reply to post at Time: 09:43:20 -0500 : It is true that mixing of "castes" is not favored in Hinduism, but the term "caste" is supposed to correspond to natural ability or natural evolutionary status. Even as per the much-reviled Manu Smriti (which in any case is not a core Hindu scripture), caste is not meant to be hereditary - the child of a Shudra can be a Brahmin and vice-versa (Manu Smriti X:65)

Name: Rohit Narayan
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 13:26:57 -0500

Comment

Yes it is true that Hindu scripture has codified misogyny (like most scripture). This should neither be overlooked or excused in any way. The moder-day discrimination that we see in Hindu society has its root in ancient customs and traditions in Hinduism. However, it is important to keep things in perspective. The main thrust of the criticism against the world of Islam today is NOT that the Koran has bad things in it. The main criticism is that a sizeable number of people are unwilling to countenance any reform specifically because the are presumed to be "divine inspiration". There are many cases where bad things are done in the name of religion - but society understand that those things are "bad". The problem with the Islamic world is that these societies are unwilling to call these things bad. For instance considering a woman half-of-a-man is a terrible thing but Islamic societies defend and stick to these ideas based on Koranic doctrine. That is the MAIN problem. Dowry deaths and Sati are terrible things and the Indian society has banned them. This does not mean it does not happen. It just means that when it happens, society knows that it was a bad thing. In other words there is no moral ambiguity.

Name: Islam??s contribution to World Culture
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 15:08:58 -0500

Comment

Pbuh, pbuh and even more pbuh and never ending pbuh, pbuh, pbuhahahaha! There is no sculpture allowed in Islam, no painting, music, dancing and theatre and printing of anything in arabic letters was strictly forbidden for more than two centuries. That??s why there is hardly any arabic literature available, that there are hardly any arabic publishing companies, nor bookstores since there are no people who read books. Even arabic writers know that and that??s why most of them write in english or french. Did I mention that it is difficult to study anything in arabic because the arabic language hasn??t developed the capabilities yet? However, the islamic world is still superior to any other civilisation. Why? They have the pbuh and it is very revealing to see that they are soooo proud of their "pbuh". Pbuhahahahaha!

Name: On Hinduism ........... by scrutator
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 15:15:22 -0500

Comment

No one here has so far said that India is a secular country, where religious edicts have no place in administration of the country. Besides making women equal to men in all applicable spheres, it in fact has introduced positive discrimination to help women and the downtrodden catch up with the rest of the populace. Christian societies too have implemented similar measures. In the Old Testament, among many other objectionable edicts, there is one which says if a widow is childless, she should beget a child by laying down with her dead husband's brother; if he refuses to do it, she can publicly humiliate him -- is this still in practice ? Obviously not ! Similarly, many of the statements in ancient religious scriptures are not applicable in this day and age, and many others have been reformed by legislation, viz. equal divorce and inheritance rights. Further, religious practices of the 'satya yuga' can not be accomplished in this 'kali yuga' -- who can meditate for 1000 years ? Can any king actually carry out the 'ashwamedha yagna' -- will he be able to capture all the territories where the horse roams ? Can he have more than one wife, never mind his 'chief' queen having sex with a horse ? For the present 'kali yuga', chanting and glorifying the name of the Lord remain the only valid and achievable means to practise Hinduism(Sanatan Dharma). This is where Hinduism (and to an extent, Christianity and Judaism too) differ from Islam. Whereas Hinduism and other religions have evolved through the ages, ISLAM HAS REMAINED STUCK TO 1400 YEAR OLD CRUEL & UNFAIR BEDOUIN CUSTOMS. THIS POINT NEEDS TO BE EMPHASISED AND RE-EMPHASISED. Interestingly, Jenn and her ilk never, ever quote from the Bhagawat Geeta, the summary of all knowledge from the Vedas, Upanishads and other Hindu sriptures. Personally, I derive immense pleasure by immersing myself in the philosophy of the Geeta, which says 'People worship Me in different Forms', 'none is dear or loathful to Me', etc.

Name: @ Jenn - the stinking corpse worshipper
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 16:12:27 -0500

Comment

Who cares about what Jenn thinks about Hindu Dharma. I certainly don't give a crap about her opinions. She should start to take a long look at her own bible. As far as i am concerned she is just a follower of a cult that worships a stinking corpse on a cross. Christians are nothing more than stinking corpse worshippers.

Name: Hemanth
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 16:55:14 -0500

Comment

I shall be refuting what Abul Kasem wrote here by providing transliteration of the verses cited by him in a separate rebuttal column. I am sure his reputation will be at stake. Many of the verses reproduced by him are taken from Christian missionary websites that know nothing about Sanskrit. I have rich knowledge of Sanskrit and know vedas. But my question to Khan and Kasem is : will my rebuttal be published on this site? If you are sincere and open-minded you should publish it. Can you confirm that to me? If not, I shall publish it on other websites and get the link to you. Hemanth P.S: Abul Kasem might have a good knowledge of Arabic and Bengali, but he messed up with verses in vedas. I can assure you that much. People will then start to doubt on his ability as an author.

Name: To Ex-muslim ...... from scrutator
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 16:59:47 -0500

Comment

Well said ! In Hinduism(Sanatan Dharma), it is said "God is Truth"...... this encompasses agnostics, atheists andnon-believers, for any sane person will subscribe to 'Truth' ! Also, "Ekam Sat Vipra Bahuda Vadanti" -- Truth is one, but the learned know it by different names.

Name: Jagmohan Singh Khurmi
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 17:33:29 -0500

Comment

True or not, this article gives a person very good reason to embrace Islam

Name: Hemanth to moderator and Abul Kasem
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 19:47:22 -0500

Comment

I would like to know from you if you are ready to publish my rebuttal to Abul Kasem's article. I shall provide the original Sanskrit verse and word-by-word transliteration. I am sure you will realize that Abul Kasem blindly copied verses from websites. In a way it shall prove that prior knowledge of language is extremely important when it comes to publishing articles on religion. Abul Kasem cannot wash off hands by directing to a particular website or author. If he has published an article, he must be able to defend it by himself. He should not give mumbo-jumbo answers like- some verses are deleted from the website. When I publish my rebuttal, I am sure many people will catch him with his pants down and may not trust him anymore. Waiting for your reply, Hemanth

Name: Hemanth to moderator and Abul Kasem
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 19:48:04 -0500

Comment

I would like to know from you if you are ready to publish my rebuttal to Abul Kasem's article. I shall provide the original Sanskrit verse and word-by-word transliteration. I am sure you will realize that Abul Kasem blindly copied verses from websites. In a way it shall prove that prior knowledge of language is extremely important when it comes to publishing articles on religion. Abul Kasem cannot wash off hands by directing to a particular website or author. If he has published an article, he must be able to defend it by himself. He should not give mumbo-jumbo answers like- some verses are deleted from the website. When I publish my rebuttal, I am sure many people will catch him with his pants down and may not trust him anymore. Waiting for your reply, Hemanth

Name: VedasBeliever
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 20:13:26 -0500

Comment

Mr. Abu Kasem Please do not misguide the people by copying pasting the above quotes from illegal sources in internet. By reading the quotes it is quite obviuos that some ill-intentioned people are trying to defame Vedas. When you quote such things you should have complete proof of this with you. I simply beleive the quotes are rubbish and do not belong to Vedas. Please stick to your prime focus that is Islam since I believe you don't have any ideas about Vedas.

Name: Sunny
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 21:38:11 -0500

Comment

Hinduism, being one of the oldest religion on earth, has undergone many reforms over time. There are some social problems, but they will eventually go away with education and awareness. Despite it's drawbacks, it has many good features. In Hinduism, there is a concept of "Moksha" or salvation which can be achieved by pleasing God and by denouncing worldly pleasures and leading a saintly life. It does not preach hatred towards other religions. It does not thrust it's ideology on others. There is no threat to world from Hindus. It believes in freedom of faith. It believes in peaceful co-existence with other religions. Unlike Islam and Christianity, there is no concept of converting people forcefully. As a Hindu, I am "free" to lead my life in my own way and nobody forces me to follow a certain path. It's solely upto me. I have many choices to pick up if I want to attain God. I am proud of my religion and consider myself very blessed by having born as Hindu.

Name: re balam
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 21:47:41 -0500

Comment

You wrote,Mono-theism of Judeo-Christian faith does not preach Immorality, murder, robbery and rape as preached and practiced in hinduism and Islam. Please visit SKEPTIC'S ANNOTATED BIBLE to see the truth for yourself. Oh Deari, Deari, me!!

Name:
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 21:52:17 -0500

Comment

Its philosophy of self-doubt in Hinduism, which has probably keeps Islam alive now. Muslims are really correct in worshiping their God Allah., the one and only God. Muslims are economically subjected to harassment with the label terrorism, and are unfairly targeted around the world because they are weak and most of the Muslims especially in Saudi do not go to schools as the government discourages it in order to loot the countries resources, so that the So called western regimes can take advantage. Most countries take advantage of them. It???s very hard to even imagine darkness when you are used to living in light and that???s what happened to most Muslims who???s only education is confronted to the madras???s, Muslim believe that Allah is the only truth and Muslims are slaves of Allah who???s kingdom is in heaven.

Name: Kasem's pants down
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 21:55:15 -0500

Comment

Kasem writes: If the women was not remarried, then her head was shaved. This is evident from Atharva Veda (14/2/60).>>>>>> crosscheck with the link www.sacred-texts.com/hin/av/av14002.htm for that verse. The true meaning of this verse is if a daughter in a house weeps then negative karma follows you for you have to keep her happy all the time. What a dirty ba$tard this Kasem is! I am sure he is following the footsteps of his paedophile prophet (lying, twisting things etc). I couldn't locate many of the verses he has quoted. As a result of his islamic past he still has deceptive genes. What a pathetic lier he is! My goodness I thought X-Muslims were honest. The moment he translated Eka's article from Bongali to English without even thinking twice about 85 BC, I thought some of these X-Muslims do not have the ability to think.

Name: Libran
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 22:11:29 -0500

Comment

I was wondering if MA Khan will give a positive nod to what Hemanth wrote on challenging Kasem's article. If this is a website on freedom of speech, then Khan should allow Hemanth to publish his rebuttal. If not, then well... that means Kasem's position is under scrutiny.

Name: MA Khan
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 22:35:50 -0500

Comment

This is not a site for "freedom of speech". This is a freethinking site, which should criticise any religion but we focus on Islam. It shouldn't be made a platform for preaching any creed either; unfortunately our forum has been turned into something like that by a few fanatics. We cannot distract from our central mission of criticising Islam. You are free to post anything you write on the discussion area.

Name: sat-chit-ananda
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 23:02:45 -0500

Comment

In the interest of maintaining the quality of this site it would be best for all articles to focus on Islam alone. Even the comments should be restricted to Islam. All other comments should be declared "off-topic" and deleted. The puerile fighting between people who are trying to criticize Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism etc is really detracting from the pleasure of reading this site.

Name: I AM hindu i quiting ISLAM WATCH
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 23:13:51 -0500

Comment

i am quiting islam watch for false this stupid article because the versus quoted in this article are either wrongly translated from sankrit or made up. i wonder the QURAN ALSO MISQUOTED FALSLY LIKE THIS HINDUISM ARTICLE. SO QURAN MUST BE TRUE LIKE VEDAS. ABDUL KASEM PANTS DOWN.

Name: To MA Khan
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 23:17:51 -0500

Comment

There is always a right to critism but it should be based on facts. You can see for yourself that majority of what he says about vedas is not even present in the website he is referring to. Then he says they might have deleted those verses. If he not lying then he should quote the verse in its original language and the translation for that. When you do that for Arabic Quran, why can't you do the for Sanskrit, which is ethnically more related to you than Arabic?

Name: seeker
Date: Tuesday January 20, 2009
Time: 23:33:45 -0500

Comment

Mr. Kasem. I am not angry or shocked by what you have written. The vedas by written by men thousands of years ago and what you have quoted may be true. I would like to caution you. Under thr British rule the missionaries tampered with the Vedas to discredit Hinduism so that they could harvest souls. (they failed miserably). Now in the internet age there are many sites doing the same thing. So please be sure what you are quoting from authentic sources. I will do a bit of research myself because like 99%Hindus I have not read the Vedas myself. I will get back to you. Regards.

Name: @@JENN
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 00:00:56 -0500

Comment

Your responses reminds me one of the islamists character as ONEGOD from ffi website....Your replies are exactly xerox of akhtar (again an ffi website islamic character).. Please come up with right verse and their interpretation.. Abusing is not going to benefit the forum.. only healthy arguments can contain some meaning....

Name: kafir/infidel ( & Ex-communist ).
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 00:32:25 -0500

Comment

To all: It seems certain that ABUL kasem has done a sloppy ,biased, crooked job as far as Hindu dharma and particularly by posting this above article. Question to Mr. KASEM . Did you read and study original scriptures, their true translations and then prepared this article ? or DID you take the above mentioned article and qutations from some other website - maintained by ISLAMISTS/CHRISTIANS who are bent on denigrating, defaming, maligning, discrediting HINDU DHARMA by their mis/dis information ,campaign of lies,deception etc. You can see them even today - in INDIA , throuout . To be sure , it is possible HINDU dharma may have some defects - but essentially it is diametrically opposite of fascist forces ,intolerant, dogmatic ideologies like ISLAM and christianity. HINDU DHARMA has many, many noble things ,practices, principles, philosophy............. It looks like that KASEM merely copied from some other web site - not his own research and going to the original scriptures and true trans lations. Kasem is giving lame excuses - that after some people here ( not even scholars ) have shown that Mr. KASEM is wrong . His- Mr. Kasems references and translation is wrong .

Name: sat-chit-ananda
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 00:35:41 -0500

Comment

Sigh! Now it seems we have Muslims posing as Hindus any trying to discredit criticism of the Koran. Best if Islam-Watch sticks to Islam. Those who want to criticize Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism - I am sure there are plenty of other sites where you can vent your feelings. All those comments should be declared off-topic and deleted in the interest of the readability of this site.

Name: free thinking does not mean baseless and false crititism
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 01:37:04 -0500

Comment

Free thinking does not meen baseless and false criticism .Hindus always welocme freethinking and freedom of thought. No hindu worries about fact based criticism.To be a hindu one need not to be theistic or believe in any god. Spirituality is just a science (anthrosophy) according to hindus and one can device his own technology (way for enlightenment) based on this like what great buddha or Mahavir jain has done.. If these criticism on vedas is all false and baseless then how can islam-watch's articles from Abul kaseem or any other author on any other relgion like islam be true and fact based critisms?is not waste of time for base less accusations. I have never read Quron or sunnah in any language from authorised sources but believed in you with your quotations thinking that they are from true references and Quron as they are and you have well read and researched them.Now how can your words here are true further ??is it not waste of time and resourses for false accusations??

Name: ExMuslim
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 01:39:43 -0500

Comment

Ibrahim, you have raised an interesting point concerning "hypocrisy". Medieval and early Renaissance-age Europeans used to call Muslims immoral, indecent, mainly for two reasons: Islamic culture of polygamy and sex-slavery. True, sexual restriction was there in Europe, but it applied largely to both sexes. Despite sexual restrictions, veiling of women only, as in Islam, was not a part of European culture either. In Islamic culture, sexual liberty existed for men and continues to exist. For women, opposite was the case and it mostly remains. On the count of polygamy and slavery, European criticisms of Islam still stand. Concerning, change in sexual liberty, if we want to change our ethical standard in the light of new realities as time passes and be labeled as hypocrite for that, we, being a product of Indian civilization, cannot claim high moral ground on the count that we have moved away from the ethical standard that our ancestors had set 5,000 years ago. MA Khan should be ignored for setting up this Website and calling upon his readers, particularly Muslims, to shed their cultural and religious rigidity and embrace progress.

Name: Hinduism reformed = Buddhism
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 01:45:36 -0500

Comment

Hinduism without widow burning, caste system, idol worship & worship of many gods equates to Buddhism!!

Name: ab
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 02:10:00 -0500

Comment

I don't want to spam here about the glory of Hinduism but if anyone is interested in knowing what kind of status was accorded to women please visit this website http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Women_in_Hinduism.htm And as sane human beings, we should be able to distinguish between what religions actually said in the scriptures and whether it is actually being followed today. Presently, a lot of Hindus do not follow what was laid down in the scriptures but that is not the fault of the scriptures, is it? In fact, the corruption and decay in values was predicted in the Hindu scriptures. If you want to read more about it, please read the book by Steven Knapp called "The Vedic Prophecies, A new look into the future". There are a huge number of Western Indologists (people who study India and Hinduism)who have spoken in glorious terms, just to name a few great ones like Arthur Schopenhauer, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau. Rather than debunking all religions as mad, it is good to know what other religions say.

Name: ExMuslim:: correction..
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 02:16:53 -0500

Comment

"True, sexual restriction was not there in Europe" should read "True, sexual restriction was there in Europe".

Name: HINDU
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 02:42:34 -0500

Comment

As an INDIAN HIndu I strongly object to the ways some hindus have spoken of Kaseem. Everybody prases him when he writes on Islam. Kaseem as a HINDU I support him

Name: Further quotes
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 03:31:41 -0500

Comment

Atharva veda (14.1.43-45) So be imperial queen when you come within your husband's home.Over your husband's fathers and his brothers be imperial queen. Over your husband's sister and his mother bear supreme control. Manu-smriti (55.59)Men who seek their own welfare should always honor women on holidays and festivals with ornaments, clothes and food.

Name: TO THE PERSON WHO POSTED THIS
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 04:26:06 -0500

Comment

Kasem writes: If the women was not remarried, then her head was shaved. This is evident from Atharva Veda (14/2/60).>>>>>> crosscheck with the link www.sacred-texts.com/hin/av/av14002.htm for that verse. The true meaning of this verse is if a daughter in a house weeps then negative karma follows you for you have to keep her happy all the time. What a dirty ba$tard this Kasem is! I am sure he is following the footsteps of his paedophile prophet (lying, twisting things etc). I couldn't locate many of the verses he has quoted. As a result of his islamic past he still has deceptive genes. What a pathetic lier he is! My goodness I thought X-Muslims were honest. The moment he translated Eka's article from Bongali to English without even thinking twice about 85 BC, I thought some of these X-Muslims do not have the ability to think. XXXX AND DO U REALY THINK HE IS TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM?? NO HE HIS MAKING ALL THESE VERSE UP.

Name: RELIGION IS A DISEASE TRUTH IS THE CURE
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 06:24:40 -0500

Comment

NO FALSE IMAGINARY JEHOVA/ALLAH CREATED MAN FROM MUD/DIRT. BRAHMIN DID NOT COME FROM ANY GOD MOUTH, NOR KSHATRIYA FROM HIS SHOULDER, NOR VAISHYA FROM HUIS LEG NOR SHUDRA FROM FOOT. MAN IS EVOLVED BY NATURE AND TRUTH AND PROOF IS IN HIS DNA AND GENES. RELIGION IS A DISEASE TRUTH IS THE CURE. OM SHANTI.

Name: seeker
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 07:50:06 -0500

Comment

I came to know of two experts on the Vedas. They are Stephen Knapp and Dr. David Frawley. Interested readers may Google their names and visit their websites. Please do so and see for yourself. I wonder what these exponents of the Vedas will have to say regarding the topic in discussion and if the verses quoted by Mr. Kasem are authentic or not. Readers please visit and let me know. Meanwhile my search continues.

Name: MA Khan
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 08:17:29 -0500

Comment

Ananda, I am taking your advice. It will be too costly to be distracted from the mission we are on. We have no scope to be distracted at all. I will add extra labour to clean up all distracting comments and will probably blacklist some of the fanatical distractors on the forum.

Name: Argho Das
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 08:48:48 -0500

Comment

I am a borderline hindu/agnostic. The aspects of hinduism that I appreciate are very much its tolerance of other religions and spirituality its quest for becoming one with nature, etc. I however, welcome critism against hinduism from all front because it would allow the "leaders" in hinduism to improve or shed light on the wrong doings that have occured in the past and still persist currently. I would like to remind those emphasising hinduism's intolerance towards women-in no other religion the thought "women gods/deities" is even remotely entertained. Sarawasti is the good of wisdom and hindus pray to her for knowledge. In hindu texts there are descriptions of avatars/gods like Durga and Kali who have even taken on men and the traditionally muscular work men (in other religions) of eradicating evil. Women and wisdom usually are not seen in the same wavelength in any other religion but hinduism. Lastly, I would like to reveal this from my experience in hinduism: the books that most hindus know and study is Bhagbad Gita NOT vedas. There are adds in India that address issues like domestic violence, dowry, etc. I have seen those being run on prime time during breaks of cricket matches. About the caste system I would also like to bring out the example of Balmiki Muni (sage) who wrote the story of Ramayana as it unfolded (supposedly). He was a thief before in the first phase of his life and became a brahmin so there is at least one example I can think of which shows that caste is that important anymore or it lost its lustre with time. Also, in Mahabharata Yudistir, described that someone who is bramhin and commits crime should be punished more than he is illterate because he knowingly committed crimes. As far the marriage issues and inter-caste issues those are products of class differences and not really religious and even if they are I am sure hinduism could and perhaps will evolve to overcome these barriers. Free thinking has never been discourage in hinduism and perhaps that's why I am still a hindu which in India includes Buddhists, Sikhs and non Christians, Jews and Muslims. Followers of Vedas, Gita, Ramayana, Upanishad, etc practice SANATA dharma.

Name: sk
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 09:12:32 -0500

Comment

the difference is that hindus have moved on. no one in modern hindu society practices any of these. hindus themselves have rid their society of many of these ills. dowry deaths, female infanticide still exists in several pockets but they dont have religious scanction. secondly these scriptures are only known to a handful priests and they do not command the same influence on the hindu society as the 'mullahs' have on muslim society. above all no hinud will be killed by organised gangs through religious sanction if he/she disagrees with these practices. lastly hindus have and are not going out into the world trying to preach superiority of these practices or converting people into these practices.

Name: chumbawamba
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 09:34:50 -0500

Comment

Hmm..I really wonder what an article on/against Hinduism is doing on website called " islam watch"?? It seems Tu qoque is ingrained deeply in muslim psyche. Some one rightly said...once a muslim always a muslim. The damage done by Islam on human mind is irreparable. The credibilty of this site has been severly dented. It will only be fair to allow a rebuttal of the same to be posted on the site as suggested by other posters.

Name: Islam, Hinduism and other Religions
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 11:43:24 -0500

Comment

I think this site is called Islam-Watch and not Islam-Bash. The difference is that the main subject islam should be discussed with good and reasonable arguments. Therefore we cannot critisize islam while ignoring the fact that there are problems in other religions too. Why should we bash islam whereever we can and accept fundamentalism, obscurantism and mysogynism in other religions? What merit would we have? And what about our credibility?

Name: Islam, Hinduism and other Religions II
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 11:47:25 -0500

Comment

However, this does not mean that there should be any relativism towards islam. Islam is and remains the most violent religion I know, perhaps with the one exception of the Maya religion which was sacrifying humans for good weather and better harvests. We all know that this religio did not survive and I dont except Islam to survive so much longer - at least not in it??s todays dimensions.

Name: sat-chit-ananda
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 11:55:15 -0500

Comment

To commenter at Time: 11:43:24 -0500. You say: "I think this site is called Islam-Watch and not Islam-Bash... Therefore we cannot critisize islam while ignoring the fact that there are problems in other religions too. Why should we bash islam whereever we can and accept fundamentalism, obscurantism and mysogynism in other religions?" I think you have the wrong idea. "Islam-Watch" should mean criticism and defense of Islam. It doesn't mean that one must concern oneself with the merits and faults of various other religions like Buddhism, Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity etc. The credibility lies in fair criticism and defense of Islam.

Name: chumbawamba
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 12:03:46 -0500

Comment

fair enough. but am sure you would agree that the same reasonable arguements should be allowed to be extended to other religions as well (if et all they are being discussed here). The point here is that topic being discussed does not come under pursued mission of the website. the intro to the article by author clearly smacks of tu qoque which is irrelevant and again makes the same folly which muslims famously commit...comparison. Our credibility lies in presenting the truth. now that author has presented a case, i believe a rebuttal should be allowed as many posters have raised concern over authenticity of verses quoted. so why not let the other side be heard. I request the moderator for the same and also suggest that such deviations should be avoided in future.

Name: rup
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 12:07:13 -0500

Comment

ALL THE OTHER RELIGION WANT PROGRESS FOR HUMAN RACE AND DEVELOPMENT OF CIVILISATION .AS CRISTIANS GO FOR DEVELOPMENT, HINDUS GO FOR PEACE, JAINS, BUDHHA, JEWS, ALL WANT DEVELOPMENT.EVEN NOW DIPRIVED CLASSES OF ALL THE RELIGIONS ARE GIVEN SPECIAL INCENTIVES BY HINDUS AND CRISTIANS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE COUNTRIES.in India the case is same as in the whole world. In 1947, when India was partitioned, the Hindu population in Pakistan was about 24%???.Today it is not even1%. In 1947, the Hindu population in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) was 30% ???. Today it is about 7%. What happened to the missing Hindus?Do Hindus have human rights?If they are in minority, in any country they say they are secular But there are 53 Muslim countries, where no rights are protected for minoritiesIn contrast, in India, Muslim population has gone up from 10.4% in 1951 to about 14% today; whereas Hindu population has come down from 87.2% in 1951 to 85% in 1991Why post - Godhra is blown out of proportion, when no-one.Wherever this community assembles or makes their habitat, they make the entire area a hell and makes quite inaccessible for other communities. Even the law enforcement agencies are resisted from entering. That makes a safe heaven for the anti-social; anti-nationals to go at large do at their own will.

Name: rup
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 12:13:45 -0500

Comment

it means Abul Kasem want to justify the stoning of girls and marring teen girls.either or not hindus are good or bad with there women.

Name: Addition to Rup
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 12:48:27 -0500

Comment

We can see a very similar situation in Turkey, where the quote christians fell from around 20% to less than 1%.

Name: kafir/infidel ( & EX.COMMUNIST )
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 14:27:34 -0500

Comment

To the EDITOR MR.M A KHAN and Mr. ABUL KASEM ; There are 3 or 4 ( and more ) web sites , operated by Christian ( western scholars ) . I will give them here . 1) STEPHEN-KNAPP.com . 2) Dharmacentral.com by DR . FRANK morales 3) American vedic studies institute by DR. DAVID Frawley . 4) The konrad elst site - a Belgium INDOLOGIST ( KONRAD ELST from the lineage of christian priests . I urge both MA KHAN and ABUL kasem to visit their sites and discuss with them about the authenticity of the above postings . All the above are nonindians and nonhindus . This is the challenge to ABUL KASEM . WHen you put your name to or on some idea or article , you must face the truth whether you are right or wrong . Thye other alternative for MA KHAN and ABUL kasem is to go and live in INDIA for a couple of years and study the history ,Hinduism ,politics,culture,philosophy for themselves , see them selves and experience themselves to know the truth. INDIA - because of HINDUS AND VEDIC philosophy is the noble land - PUNYA BHUMI like no other country on this earth.

Name: Re: sat-chit-ananda
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 15:58:31 -0500

Comment

Both title and subtitle strongly suggest that this site provides critical information about islam. The fact that there are some muslims defending islam with their comments doesn??t change that at all. Moreover, most if not all of these comments are not very impressive.

Name: kamal
Date: Wednesday January 21, 2009
Time: 19:31:50 -0500

Comment

I have come across another related article here, called "Women and the Vedas" http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_070503.htm which seems to discredit this authors interpretations.