Muslim Brothers of Indian Subcontinent: It's Time for Homecoming, Part 5a
25 Jan, 2008
- Editor note: We are in favor of leaving religions altogether. However, this article is published here, because, a peaceful appeal to Muslims for their return to their roots, from which they were brutalized to accept Islam, deserves a place here and everywhere else.
Part 1
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Part 2
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Part 4a –
Part 4b –
Part 5a –
Part 5b
Caste System in Muslim Society of India
In response to my series of essays, “Muslim Brothers of Indian Subcontinent: It’s Time for Home-coming”, in Islam-watch.org, some Muslim readers have commented that they have no desire to return to Hinduism (the faith, from which they were once were converted to Islam at the point of sword), because Hindu society is mired in the evil of caste system.
A reader said, “first I would like to help you understand your own brothers in India who are differentiated by you of caste and pushed them to the dirty walls and what is use of bringing relationship with another country when you don’t understand relationship inside your country and own culture.”
“Just because you have caste system, don’t condemn other
religions you cow dung sucker“, said another reader.
Muslim clerics and scholars, Christian priests and the Communists
in India frequently criticize Hinduism for its caste system of
discriminative and inhumane nature. They accuse that the Brahmanya
Dharma or Brahmanism created this despicable institution as a tool
to oppress and exploit the people belonging to lower strata,
particularly Sudras, the lowest caste.
Historically, the casteism in Indian society originated as a division of labor. As an ancient civilization, when India, like all such civilizations, became organized into a civilized society, there arose needs for various kinds of goods and services: cloths, pots, utensils and many such things. Others engaged in fighting and defence, teaching and priesthood etc. Down the generations, groups of peopled became specialized in individual skills of their trade, which, undoubtedly, led to the caste system in India. The Indian society in the early stage of civilization was divided into four major castes or Varnas: 1) Brahmana, the teacher and priest caste, 2) Kshatriya, the warrior caste, 3) Vashya, the farmer and trader caste, and 4) Sudra, the caste of manual laborers. This labor-based division, which is the foundation of the caste system in India, must have existed in every civilized society in their formative eras and continues to exist today in one form or another.
Unfortunately for the Indian civilization, Hindu scriptures (Rigveda, Bhagabat Geeta etc.) later incorporated these social divisions, ratified them.[1] This made the division rigid, social intercourse more difficult; it made the system lasting. Although the three upper castes have been respectable, the Sudras at the bottom have, undoubtedly, suffered inexcusable social discrimination, degradation and exploitation. All conscientious Hindus regret this historical reality. The constitution of independent India has made caste-based discriminations illegal. The Hindu society eagerly hopes that whatever residue of caste-discrimination at the social level remains would wither away as soon as possible.
Let us now turn to allegedly non-caste creeds like Christianity and Islam, which, the critics of Hinduism, unstintedly admire. They say that these religions, particularly Islam, are far more humane and egalitarian, because they do not have any discriminatory and oppressive institution like casteism. The rich and the poor in Islam pray alike standing side by side in a mosque, they argue. But,
Are these societies truly free from caste-discriminations?
Has conversion of Hindus into these creeds enhanced their social standing?
Has they achieved economic liberation?
On the basis of the ground-realities in these societies in India even today, one has to reply to these questions largely in the negative. The reality is that those Hindus, who converted to Islam from the lower caste, still remain largely low-caste and economically impoverished, thier social intercourse is largely bounded by their pre-Islamic social groupings. The renowned historian, Tara Chand, writes in his History of Freedom Movement in India that
“All census reports (of India) before 1931 used to give a long lost of Muslim castes and there is no doubt whatsoever that in the 18th century, the Muslim inhabitants in India followed the pattern that of the Hindu society... This was un-Islamic but an awakening against it was impossible at that time” (Vol-1, p-100).
As a consequence, the Muslim society of India is also divided into many castes. Even today, there exist more than 20 Muslim castes in a village alone in Uttar Pradesh.
So those Muslims in India, who think that their religion and society is free of caste system, is utterly ignorant of the ground-reality or are in glaringly obvious denial; they are only spreading a stark lie. On the contrary, caste system amongst Muslims can be far more rigorous and rigid in some respects than in the Hindu society. If a Hindu girl marries a lower caste Hindu boy, her parents may at best refuse to maintain any relation with her. But, if a Muslim girl marries a lower caste Muslim boy, she runs a high risk of falling victim to honour killing.
Tara Chand also writes that the Sayeds were at the zenith of the Muslim caste hierarchy. Aurangzeb had strong sympathy for the Sayeds; he believed that they should be held in high esteem by every Muslim; they must not be hurt either physically or mentally. The position of these Sayeds in Muslim society is mostly like the Brahmins in Hindu society. The Sayeds were foreigners from West Asian Muslim countries. When a higher caste Hindu converted to Islam, they were called Shaikhs and used to claim a higher position in the hierarchy of Muslim society.. But the lower caste Hindus, called Razils after conversion, were treated as lower caste Muslims. These Razils were considered no better than kafirs by the Sayeds or other higher caste Muslims; entering into a matrimonial relationship with the Razils was unthinkable for the rest of Muslim society.
Moreover, mainstream Muslim society refuses to accept the Qadianis (Ahmadiyyas) as Muslims and do not let their dead being buried in the common graveyards. Conflicts between Shia and Sunni, Hanafi and non-Hanafi are a regular feature in Muslim society. Shiites and other Muslim sects are severely discriminated against in Saudi Arabia (and many other countries), a society founded by the Prophet of Islam. Even in India and Pakistan, Shia villages are attacked, looted and razed to the ground by the Sunnis. It is also important to note that Shia-Sunni disputes in India and elsewhere are more frequent, widespread and grave than the Hindu-Muslims riots. It is needless to say that these divisions in the Muslim society are nothing but some form of casteism. In Muslim society, the Syeds, Moghals, Pathans, Shaikhs and the Muslims of foreign origin are considered superior to converted Indian Muslims. These higher caste Muslims do not enter into any social intercourse and matrimonial relations with the low caste Muslims like the Kalus, Jolas, and Nikaris etc.
Without going into detail, let me emphasize that similar social discrimination, of whatsoever gravity, also exist in the Christian society. The lower caste Hindus, after their conversion to Christianity, have formed a depressed class, the Dalit Christians, who remain socially marginalized, impoverished.
Islam-loving Indian scholar Yoginder Singh Sikand has presented a detailed account of the origin of Muslim caste system in India in his essay, Caste in Indian Muslim Society. At the very outset, Sikand Writes:
“Although the Qur'an insists on the radical equality of all Muslims, caste (zat, jati, biraderi) remains a defining feature of Indian Muslim society, with significant regional variations. While the severity of caste among the Indian Muslims is hardly as acute as among the Hindus, with the practice of untouchability being virtually absent, caste and associated notions of caste-based superiority and inferiority still do play an important role in Indian Muslim society.”
He adds:
“This disjunction between Qur'anic egalitarianism and Indian Muslim social practice has been theorized by Muslim scholars in different ways. While some have sought to reconcile the two by interpreting the scripturalist sources of Islam to support social hierarchy, others have pointed out that the continued existence of caste-like features in Indian Muslim society is a flagrant violation of the Qur'anic worldview.”
To explain the origin of caste system in Indian Muslim society, Sikand writes:
“The vast majority of the Indian Muslims are descendants of converts from what is today called 'Hinduism'. Individual conversions to Islam in medieval times were rare. Rather, typically, entire local caste groups or significant sections thereof underwent a gradual process of Islamisation, in the course of which elements of the Islamic faith were gradually incorporated into local cosmologies and ritual practice while gradually displacing or replacing local or 'Hindu' elements. ….Hence, even after conversion to Islam, marriage continued to take place within the original caste group. … And many of the converts retained several aspects of their local, pre-Islamic beliefs and practices.”
It is needless to reiterate that the conversion of Hindus to Islam did not rid themselves of the caste-discrimination they faced in Hindu society. The Muslim society remain as caste-bound as the Hindu society in India, with the exception that a violation of caste-restriction in Muslim society can turn fatal unlike in Hindu society.
It is not a problematic part of the Indian Muslim society alone; the Arab society remains the most racist, discriminative, in the world.
[1] Bhagavad Gita 4:13 says, "Chaaturvarnyam mayaa
srishtam gunakarma vibhaagashah", which means 'the fours varna were
established based ones karma/duties.' Rigveda says, "padbhyam shudro
ajaayata"—meaning 'the Sudras emanated
from the feet of the lord.'
(To be continued)
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Name: GoodNewsForIslam
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 10:53:42 -0500
Comment
To, Dr Radhasyam Brahmachari, may I know why you always write such a offending article for Islam-Watch? Why you always write a article against the mission statement of Islam-Watch. First of all please try to understand the MISSION of ISLAM-WATCH. Write article through which you can expose Islam.
Name: continuum
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 11:00:10 -0500
Comment
Racism is common among white Christians. Even today you can find segregated cities in USA and perhaps in Europe too. From small towns to big cities like Chicago, NY, Houston etc. have black population living separately from rich white neighborhood. That being said, the Vedic verse and the Bhagavat Gita verse talk about what kind of religious duties were set for each group according to their characteristics and nature. The idea was performing Karma Yoga according to their nature will help them in advancing spiritually. Exploitation was never the motive for Vedas or Bhagavat Gita. The problems in society is due to people, NOT scriptural. Also the Purusha Sukta verse from Rig Veda talks about origin of Varna from God (who is referred as Purusha meaning one who is free from sins).
Name: Re: GoodNewsForIslam
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 11:02:39 -0500
Comment
The topic is "Caste System in Muslim Society of India". I think it exposes Islam as practiced in India.
Name: amar khan
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 12:15:02 -0500
Comment
castes exists in every society but to my knowledge only hinduism legalise it via saying that some human are made of head of God and some from legs etc.in islam arabs thought they are best nation. abdul kasim has a detailed article on racist allah and islam.
Name: duh_swami
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 14:32:15 -0500
Comment
Islams caste system is in four types...Top Banana's... Muslims because Islam is supreme, and Allah made them superior. Second banana...Women, because Allah created them stupid....Third Banana: Children, who barely count...Next in line are the Islamic untouchables, filthy kufrs...They don't get numbers or bananas...
Name: Vp
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 16:08:53 -0500
Comment
In the Islamic culture Arabs are the epitome of Muslims. All Muslims have to be obedient to the Arabs. Black Muslims are shunned and so are non Arab Muslims they are considered lower than the Arab Muslims. Moreover, Islam already condemns all other non Muslims as inferior kafirs, even though we do not practice Islam. Islam has divided humanity and practices extremely cruelty.
Name: Indian Rationalist
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 21:50:04 -0500
Comment
To contiuum... Rigveda says, Brahmana is born of God's head, Sudra from God's (filty) feet, which determines what these two castes are fit for; what kind of work they are supposed to do for the eternity. Reducing a section of people, indeed the largest section in Hindu society, into a filthy, untouchable community forever, who can do nothing but the filthiest jobs and remain a miserable people, cannot have any relation to exploitation only to uncivilized, barbarous fanatics. Unfortunately such blind-folded fanatics are very few in Hindu society. Thanks to them that our untouchable brothers will one claim their dignified standing in Indian society and walk shoulder-to-shoulder with the rest with their heads held high.
Name: jenn
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 21:53:40 -0500
Comment
Dear Dr. Brahamachari, I am a western woman who converted to islam many years ago and so glad that I had the courage to escape from it. I have spent many months in your india, travelled the entire country as a backpacker and learned about your Hinduism. I can honestly say that Hinduism is as bad as islam when it comes to the treatment of women. I admire your attacks on islam. But its also time you stop promoting Hinduism and be honest to show the the evils of hindu customs such as widow burning, the cast system and attacks on indian christians . Both these 2 cults islam and Hinduism needs to exposed for what they are. EVIL
Name: continuum To Indian Rationalist
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 23:34:40 -0500
Comment
"Sudra from God's (filty) feet," God's feet is same as God's head. Nothing is filthy. As for what is happening in society is NOT inspired by scriptures. Untouchability has nothing to do with scriptures. SO go get a life instead of writing nonsense.
Name: To fanatic christian jenn
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 23:39:16 -0500
Comment
You complain about Sati which is a voluntary act of widows at the least as per scriptures. You complaint about caste system which has degenerated presently, but turn a blind eye towards racism and treatment of non-christians in your own religion as filthy people. Your new testament says unbelievers are dirty just like Islam. Nest to Islam, Christianity is the worst religion when it comes to treatment of women. In your old testament your god orders murder of men and taking their women as sex slaves just like quran, not to mention your new testament asks christian women to shut up in churches and obey your husband.
Name: continuum
Date: Saturday January 24, 2009
Time: 23:43:16 -0500
Comment
Dr. Brahmachari, Don't you think you should write an article in this forum refuting the nonsense interpretation of Abul Kasem? I think this forum is turning into a Christian fanatics' website. It is time the vile teachings of bible. It is strange that the authors target Hinduism, while giving a free ride to Christian fanatics... There are some Christian converts in this website writing articles against Hinduism.
Name: Going extinct soon..
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 00:31:25 -0500
Comment
Native religion of India is on the road to extinction...
Name:
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 00:39:48 -0500
Comment
keep dreaming
Name: continuum
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 00:49:09 -0500
Comment
Bible calls non-Christians dirty just like quran. Young's Literal Translation (2 Corinthians) 6:14 Become not yoked with others -- unbelievers, for what partaking is there to righteousness and lawlessness? 6:17 wherefore, come ye forth out of the midst of them, and be separated, saith the Lord, and an unclean thing do not touch, and I -- I will receive you
Name: Worldwide Deception Corporation
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 01:20:25 -0500
Comment
Satan's Deception Corporation has many branches from the most violent form Islam, Nazism, Communism, to the mild form Hinduism, Darwinism, and other forms of Christianized paganism. A large proportion of humanity from India, Africa, China and to all Islamic countries were victims of this Great Deception, wittingly or unwittingly. http://www.army.lk/morenews.php?id=15498
Name: Indian Rationalist to "contiuum"
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 01:24:50 -0500
Comment
Your head (brain) is not the same as your filthy leg. The same applies to your Hindu God. The Brahmana, born of God's head, the most treasure element of God's body. So says Manu [1:99]: "A Brahmana, coming into existence, is born as the highest on earth, the lord of all created beings, for the protection of the treasury of the law." Brahmana, at the pinnacle of God's creation, is worthy of the trade of intellectual exercise, the trade in God's knowledge, laws and wisdom only. So says Manu [1:103]: "A learned Brahmana must carefully study them, and he must duly instruct his pupils in them, but "nobody else" (shall do it)." While the Sudra, created from the filthiest part of God's body, the meanest of human creation, must do the filthiest jobs to serve the higher humans. So says Manu [1:91]"One occupation only the lord prescribed to the Sudra, to serve meekly even these (other) three castes." No ancient creed is free from failth, be it Hindu, Islam, Christianity. Your fanatical belief in your creed does not make it sacred; it only lowers your humanity as much as of Hindu society.
Name: continuum To Indian Rationalist
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 01:35:19 -0500
Comment
"Your head (brain) is not the same as your filthy leg. The same applies to your Hindu God." It does NOT apply the same way to God, if you know anything about Hindu conception of God. You quote manu smriti without understanding. It does NOT lay restrictions on secular works at all. When somebody pays for your work, you are already doing the work of a Sudra.
Name: continuum To Indian Rationalist
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 01:38:37 -0500
Comment
and who cares what people like you think. Just because you think something is NOT sacred, does not make it not sacred. A prescription is NOT a compulsion.
Name: continuum To Indian Rationalist
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 01:40:38 -0500
Comment
"Brahmana, at the pinnacle of God's creation, is worthy of the trade of intellectual exercise, the trade in God's knowledge, laws and wisdom only. So says Manu [1:103]: " This verse talks about Vedic teachings. It does NOT talk about secular intellectual activities. This shows you are one ignoramus.
Name: Hinduism
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 01:42:43 -0500
Comment
So many new monotheistic sects based on pure spirituality like Brahma Kumaris,Sahaj Marg completely of modern origin comprising people from all religions lend new meaning to the life of secular India. The outlook of these sects are absolutely modern.
Name: A Miserable Country
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 01:51:48 -0500
Comment
A miserable country where cows and monkeys freely roam the streets, rats scurrying unmolested inside native pornographic temples and people bath unconcerned while nearby a corpse is floating in some religious ceremony.
Name: miserable christian fanatics
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 01:57:05 -0500
Comment
miserable christian fanatics infest this website including some authors perhaps. dirty white Europeans who do not take bath are talking about cleanliness to others...
Name: Non-progressive People
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 02:00:22 -0500
Comment
Non-progressive people are people who blame others for their miserable state. Woe to them.
Name: Agnostic
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 02:05:52 -0500
Comment
From continuum's last two posts to Indian Rationalist, he suggests that Hindu scripture is sacred because following its prescriptions amounts to inhumanity.
Name:
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 02:06:09 -0500
Comment
miserable christian fanatics are loosing ground everywhere.. their miserable religion is losing ground.. so they start making comments when nobody made any comments they claim others made...
Name: continuum
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 02:09:52 -0500
Comment
"From continuum's last two posts to Indian Rationalist, he suggests that Hindu scripture is sacred because following its prescriptions amounts to inhumanity." Where does Hindu scripture prescribe inhumanity ? unless you think that prescription of what is good in spiritual sense is inhumane ? The system mentioned in Hindu scriptures is doing one's duty without selfishness. This includes from Brahmins to Shudras. So if anybody exploits any class, they are acting selfish, which is NOt scriptural injunction.
Name: sat-chit-ananda
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 02:25:16 -0500
Comment
Actually, in the original sense, caste was the same as "Natural Evolutionary Status". Hinduism believes that the goal of each human being is Enlightenment, and the process of getting there may take more than one life-time. Hinduism recognized that different individuals have different capabilities and inclinations in accordance with their evolutionary status. It should be mentioned that caste was not hereditary - the son of a Shudra could be a Brahmin and also vice-versa. (Manu Smriti X:65)
Name: Ilham Abdullah (ex-muslim)
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 03:28:00 -0500
Comment
Islam better than Hinduism? Get real. All things considered, there is no doubt whatsoever that Islam is by far the worst of the two religions. Islam is an extreemly dangerous and harmful ideology has been disastrous to humanity. How those who call themselves Muslims can even call Islam a religion is laughable. All religions have their problems, but Islams treachery is completely beyond the pale. Islam is a fraud and Mohammeds deceitful behaviour was disgraceful. People leave Islam because they value their integrity.
Name: vbv
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 03:47:26 -0500
Comment
Non-arab Muslims are always subservient to arabs , and the arabs always think they are superior to all other muslims. Evidence is there in what is happening in Sudan, Darfur, and other places. Indian muslim women who flock to arab countries for domestic labour are treated like dirt by their employers and sexually exploited . What is this ,if it is not castism? Saudi Arabia is supposed to be 'holy land' for Indian muslims, while it is nothing but arid desert. If oil was not discovered by the western 'kaffir' countries, these barbaric bedouins would still be engaged in nefarious activities , looting ,slave trading and the like! Yet muslims revere these morally bankrupt people who have no real civilisation . This is worse than castism : it is blatant racism acknowledging the supremacy of arabs over others. Castism is atleast banned legally in India, but arab supremacy is upheld in Quran where Allah is supposed to have said that the arabs are the "best" of all people ,more specifically the arabs belonging to the queresh tribe from which Muhamad hails!. Castism is practiced by all in some form or the other. Christians are not above it : they come to India with their evangelical zeal denigrating Indian culture to promote christianity. Are christians above castism/racism when they contemptuously dismiss hindus as 'polytheists'(as though polytheism was a grave and unpardonable sin), pagans, heathens and what not in the most derogatory manner. Both Islam and Christianity are proselytising cults and extremely intolerant and violent against other belief-systems. You cannot say the same for hinduism which is not exclusivist , but all inclusive and respects any form of spirituality. All the wars and problems in the world throughout history emanates from the two bigoted cults of islam and christianity ,whose main aim is conversion and subjugation of the entire planet under them! Before anyone accuses hinduism of castism let them wash their own dirty linens properly!
Name: Ilham Abdullah
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 04:26:17 -0500
Comment
Those who claim Islam as their religion and spend their life trying to spread it should be ashamed of their behaviour. Those who sincerely desire spiritual understanding will never find it in Islam. Though in truth most Muslims are just brain washed dupes who can barely think for themselves - Certainly not capable of honest study and critical thought - The learned "Muslims" are self dishonest disingenuous people.
Name: to Ananda
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 05:29:19 -0500
Comment
You call yourself sat-chit and not quite so, not that honest. You mention Manu X:65, knowlingly excluding the previous stanza Manu X:64, which are linked. Here is:
---------
Manu X:64. If (a female of the caste), sprung from a Brahmana and a Sudra female, bear (children) to one of the highest caste, the inferior (tribe) attains the highest caste within the seventh generation. Manu X:65. (Thus) a Sudra attains the rank of a Brahmana, and (in a similar manner) a Brahmana sinks to the level of a Sudra; but know that it is the same with the offspring of a Kshatriya or of a Vaisya.]
--------------------
If a Sudra female bears a female child with a Brahman and if this offsrping breeds with Brahman male and continues, in the 7th generation, the spring will attain the status of Brahman. Similar rule applies to other castes Vaisya and Ksatriya.
Name:
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 06:13:21 -0500
Comment
People look to Mohammed to fill their empty souls. Islam is a ridiculous and tragic joke that teaches us much about being desperate fools in desparate times reaching out blindly with the best of intentions and getting burned. Regardless of its initial appeal and fake rewards, Islam betrays the self.
Name: DONT FORGET DEOBANDI AND BAREVALI CASTE ALSO.....
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 07:03:55 -0500
Comment
DEAR SIR,I AM ZAKIR KASKAR A EX-MUSLIM FROM KAFIRISTAN INDIA WE R KONKANI MUSLIMS SAME AS DAWOOD IBRAHIM KASKAR INDIA'S MOST WANTED TERRORIST.WE R BAREVALI MUSLIM,AND THAT TOO NON SYED TYPE.IF SOME GIRL FROM MY EX-CASTE CASTE WANT TO MARRY A KHAN/PATHAN OR SYED ITS DIFFICULT. SAME WAY THE MASJIDS OF DEOBANDI AND BAREVALLIS IS ALSO DIFFERENT AND BOTH DONT MIX WITH EACH OTHER,ALSO SHIA SUNNI IS LIKE 2 DIFFERENT RELIGION.IN OUR ECASTE OF MUSLIMS EVEN DOWRY A HINDU CUSTOM IS CARRIED ON,AND I DONT KNOW WHY.I LEFT ISLAM IN 1992 AND NEVER LOOKED BACK.I AGREE WITH U 10000% IN ISLAM CASTEISM IS ALIVE.EVEN IN SAUDI ARABIA WHICH IS HOME OF ISLAM THERE R SHIA SUNNI,AND EVEN IN SUNNI THE ROYALTY AND OTHER PEOPLE THERE IS CASTEISM AND THERE R THE HIGHER AND LOWER CASTE LIKE SYED ANSAR ETC THIS A FRIEND TOLD ME HE WENT TO SAUDI ARABIA AS A DOCTOR BUT RETURNED IN 1 YEAR DUE TO MENTAL TORTUE BY THE SAUDIS WHO TREAT INDIAN MUSLIMS INCL INDIAN MUSLIM DOCTOR MY FRIEND AS DIRT. U R BANG ON TARGET.SORRY FOR CAPS,BUT YR IS GOOD ARTICLE. TRUTH WILL WIN AND ISLAM MUST LOOSE TO TRUTH ELSE NUKE WORLD WAR 3 IS VERY NEAR.
Name: jenn
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 07:05:09 -0500
Comment
Hinduism is another miserable evil cult just like islam. Let me tell you what that great indian thinker and independent india's 1st prime minister Jawaharlal nehru wrote in his autobiography. ' As long as Hinduism continues to dominate my india, my indian people will remain as slaves and never find liberation. The moment pakistan becomes a muslim nation , islam will hold its people as slaves. islam and Hinduism has given the world only poverty, illitracy, violence and misery.'
Name: Hey jenn
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 07:14:38 -0500
Comment
jenn, are you a christian? Please answer honestly.
Name: truth about hate based ideology christianity pls chk foll sites
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 07:16:51 -0500
Comment
truth about hate based ideology christianity pls chk foll sites : http://www.evilbible.com/, http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/, http://www.richarddawkins.net/, U WILL SEE CHRISTIANITY IN ITS REAL FORM IS SAME AS ISLAM.
Jenn, you could choose some civilized language. I have watching your comments in charged language and often distracting from the topic. -Editor
Name: sat-chit-ananda
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 07:19:37 -0500
Comment
Response to commenter at Time: 05:29:19 -0500 : The Manu Smriti quote was from the Wikipedia article about the caste system, which did not refer to other verses. So yes, if Buhler's translation is reliable, then the preceeding and succeeding verses do seem to take the view that caste is hereditary. But the Manu Smriti is not considered a core part of Hinduism, and that view stands in contrast to other authoritative Hindu sources that aver that attainment of enlightenment does not depend on ancestry. The sage Valmiki is a well known example. The idea that each soul is evolving towards enlightenment, in a journey that spans more than one life-time, is a very basic concept in Hinduism. IMHO, what can be considered as the core of Hinduism is - the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Advaita philosophy of Adi Shankara.
Name: RELIGION IS A DISEASE TRUTH IS THE ONLY CURE
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 07:20:17 -0500
Comment
RELIGION IS A DISEASE TRUTH IS THE ONLY CURE : NO FALSE GOD/JEHOVA/ALLAH CREATED MAN FROM MUD/DIRT BUT MAN IS EVOLED BY NATURE FROM 1 CELLED ORGANISMS AND PROOF IS IN HUMAN DNA AND GENES.LET TRUTH PREVAIL.TRUTH SHALL STAND OUT FROM ERROR,TRUTH SHALL SET US FREE,TRUTH ALONE SHALL TRIUMPH.OM SHANTI [ zakir kaskar - ex-muslim ]
Name: hinduism has no 1 core book but its a mishmash so cant blame hinduism alone
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 07:33:17 -0500
Comment
hinduism is a mishmash of various books and ideologies the NATH SAMPRADAY was one of the first to eliminate caste system.but it never got popular.many other movements in bhakti movement like warkari lingalay vaishnavism etc tried but failed to break casteism as it was more based on division of labour.ie if u r a farmer u cant run away from it thus u r stuck there.BUT NOW DUE TO MODERN TECHNOLOGY AND STUFF AND DEVELOPMENT OF CITIES I SEE CASTEISM IS LOOSING GRIP IN INDIA AND I AM HAPPY. GUJARATI BRAHMIN BOY MARRIED MARATHI FARMER GIRL [ UPADHYAY MARRIED PATIL GIRL IN MUMBAI ] AND NITHER PARENTS OPPOSED IT.THE FUNNY PART BOTH R DOCTORS SO AGAIN CASTE SYSTEM COME IN.YES NEW AGE CASTE BOTH R DOCTORS. SAME WAY NOW SOFTWARE PROFESSIONALS WANT TO MARRY SIMILAR PEOPLE.SO OLD CASTE IS BREAKING AND HOPE INDIA WILL BE UNITED AND STAND AGAINST ISLAM/CHRISTIANITY AND SHOW THE WORLD THE WAY TO WARD PEACE.ELSE NUKE WORLD WAR 3 IS COMING.[zakir kaskar - ex-muslim ]
Name: Ibrahim
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 08:03:23 -0500
Comment
To tell you the truth Dr. Achari, most Western people especially the Missionaries have purposefully twisted the meanings of Vedic texts. Of course the reason was to carry out the White man's burden. While there might be a few practices in Hindus which donot make sense, on the whole I feel that Hindus and other people who follow Eastern Religions, namey Hindusim, Buddhism, Jainism, Daosits, etc, are very peaceful people.Thanks to the lies of the White Christian missionaries which they tell inorder to demonize indigenous faiths everywhere they go to sell their religion. India is not only country where these vendors of the Christian faith have carried out their vile propaganda, they did the same in Africa, in China, Japan, everywhere they went with their book. In the guise of helping people the flowers of this vile Cult called Christianity actually try to subvert the local people's though process as they try to gain converts. Though I don't follow an faith, I am totally in favor of people following indigenous faiths as they are completely compatible with the the region where they originate. Of course there also lies the need to remove evil and ugly practices. Earlier I was under the impression that the Bible teaches good stuff for the most part, however after devoting some time to reading the Bible, I found out that it was even more Vile and horrifying than the Quran. In fact Allah of the Quran starts to look like nice kid when compared to YAWEH, the god of the Christians and Jews. Its only good that Christians don't follow the teachings of their religions, otherwise we would have worse Jihadis in the form of Christians. The instructions in the Bible to kill non-Christians are as clear as crystal. I saw the real face of Christianity in Africa where I saw the Christians killing others in the name of their God, and even justified their killings using Biblical Verses. I feel that the unholy trinity of the three desert cults needs to be exposed if we are to have peace in the world.
Folks, do not spam the site loading unrelated materials. Stay on the Casteism issue, particularly in Muslim society. -- Editor
GoodnewsforIslam,
Any content posted here is the responsibility of the editor. Any comment on such misjudgment should be directed to the editor. As concerns these essay, I have put an explanation at the top and I hope that suffice.
I believe that any people who have been converted by tools of barbaric cruelty---whether India, Americas or wheresoever---deserved to hear peaceful calls to return to their civilizational roots. -Editor
Name: seeker
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 12:38:14 -0500
Comment
Dear Ibrahim. You said it. I recieved my education in a school in India run by the Irish brothers. Wonderful people they were. I have nothing againts them. I remember as children we used to run to the church before the exams and pray before the statue/idol of Jesus. We Hindus are like that honestly. I too was a sucker to think about peaceful aspect of Christianity. It was only as the years rolled by did I realise what this religion was all about. Now with the marvels/blessing of the Internet every thing is there you want to know about. Today only a birds brain can convert to Christianity. These pathetic people have not been able to build a single church in Saudi Arabia. They have been driven to live as second class citizens in Lebanon, Turkey, Indonesia and elsewhere. Yet they love to take potshots at Hindus and curse them as if Hindus are responsible for all the terror and misery on this world. Shame on them. Coming to the issue of casteism being discussed, one Muslim i knew used to refer to other muslims in the class as Julahas (artisans or weavers, whatever that meant) Now is not that casteism.
Name: lebowski
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 13:56:33 -0500
Comment
The above written article is imbecilic in nature. I am an atheist and hinduism along with all other religions is idiotic. Worshippers of kali called thuggees carried out the most gruesome murders known to man. A recent human rights US based watchdog has revealed how bad the state of human rights is in India. No doubt india is a democracy and has a bright future. However hindus such as the shiv sena are as much a problem for indias future as muslims. and by the way dr brahamchari while youre out there attempting to win back hindus from the muslims, go ahead and prescribe that for the catholics in europe, the puritans in the US, and the christians in africa all of whom are suffering the plight of belief in a nonexistent deity.
Name:
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 15:10:07 -0500
Comment
Thugges are some deviant sect that appeared among thieves. This is more a secret organization of thieves more than a Hindu sect.
Name:
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 15:13:12 -0500
Comment
Shiva Sena, RSS etc. are nationalists. There are atheists among these groups who pride themselves in Indigenous culture. These orgs came into existence because of consistent attack of Christians and muslims against Hindus, animist tribal groups of India. These same human rights watch group do not report when Hindus are attacked by these xians and muslims. Hindus mostly react to attacks against them.
Name: skai
Date: Sunday January 25, 2009
Time: 20:10:00 -0500
Comment
To,jenn, You say " But its also time ...Hinduism and be honest to show the evils of Hindu customs such as widow burning" Widow burning was NOT the part of Hindu religion , yes it was a custom, which was abolished in 1800's .Where as Christians "burning of witches in Christian countries "was a common practice ,even in USA until late 1800's. I can honestly say there are only two religions on this plane which committed atrocities/genoside against (Red Indians of USA, Canada. Aborigines of Australia, Natives of New-Zealand in the name god ),they are Christianity and Islam (in Arabian peninsulas, North, Central, West Africa, Persia, Afghanistan ,India to name the few) because they are missionary cults, Hindu have never gone their borders to kill and pillage as did Christians and Muslims. Read a Book by Henrietta Buckmaster called "Women How Shaped History" about Harriet Tubman, she was a negro slave child born in 1821 in Maryland, she tell her story and what treatment you Christians gave to slave Negroes, that happened where ever you Christians went.